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Rebecca Brooks: Peer tutoring is when a peer is providing some form of support, oftentimes one-on-one support to another student. And the role that I had and the way I was utilizing peers was having a peer go with a peer with a disability to that student's classroom, which was the general education classroom and providing a wide variety of support.

So it was very dependent on what that student needed. So some students needed modeling, might've needed reminders of what they should be doing during a task or an activity, or having instructions re-explained and support the student in the classroom with class activities. That peer being given instruction and guidance and training from both myself as the special education teacher as well as the general education teacher.

Tim Villegas: Hello, I'm Tim Viegas. This is Think Inclusive. And that was Rebecca Brooks. I'm associate professor in the school of Education at California State University, San Marcos and the program director. For CSUSM's aspiring Scholars program talking about peer tutoring as a support for implementing inclusive practices, we are so glad you're here listening or watching.

Uh, think Inclusive. MCIE's podcast that brings you conversations with people doing the work of inclusion in the real world. Our guest today brings a wealth of experience from her years as a special education teacher where she implemented peer tutoring systems. To ensure students with disabilities had access to general education classrooms and inclusive schools.

In this episode, Rebecca shares her insights on what peer tutoring is, how it differs from peer buddy programs, and the incredible benefits it offers, not just to students with disabilities, but also to peer tutors themselves. We'll discuss the selection process for peer tutors, the training and support they receive.

The impact of peer tutoring on both academic and social outcomes. Rebecca also addresses some common questions and concerns such as ethical considerations of peer tutoring and how it can be documented in the IEP. Plus she shares some success stories that highlight the positive changes peer tutoring can bring to a school community.

Before we get into our conversation with Rebecca, I want to tell you about our sponsor for this season. IXL. IXL is a fantastic all in one platform designed for K 12 education. It helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress seamlessly. Imagine having a tool that simplifies what usually requires dozens of different resources.

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Okay, after a short break, my conversation with Rebecca Brooks, catch you on the other side.

Rebecca Brooks, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast. 

Rebecca Brooks: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. 

Tim Villegas: Rebecca. Um, I, so we set up, we've been trying to get together, um, and, and talk about peer TU tutoring and what that looks like for students with disabilities for a while, and I think that I was introduced to you.

At the Club 21 conference. Yes. Right. Good 

Rebecca Brooks: memory. Yes. Okay. 

Tim Villegas: Yes. So I think you were a speaker and, um, my good friend, joy Domingo, uh, who. Uh, who I, I forget her exact title, but she's with Club 21 and she says, you have to meet Rebecca. She's doing really awesome things. And so I reached out and I wanted to talk to you about peer tutoring because it, it's not a topic that we've had, um, covered on the podcast before and I feel like it.

Sometimes gets confused with like, peer buddy programs or like friendship programs. And so really if you could just start out and tell us your role, you know, um, I know that you, you, uh, teach at a college, um, but then kind of your just credentials, like background, like why should we be, I mean, I know why we should be listening to you about peer tutoring, but our audience doesn't know, so let's start there.

Rebecca Brooks: Well, thank you. So I'm an associate professor in the School of Education at California State University San Marcos, and I'm also the program director for CSMU's aspiring Scholars Program, which is an inclusive post-secondary education program. And prior to being at the university, I spent many years as a special education teacher, and in that role.

I supported students to be included in the general education classrooms, and I taught K through 12, but the majority of my years teaching was in high school. And so I, um, oftentimes, um, created and implemented peer tutoring systems. And so the way that I was able to support students, um, and ensure that they had access, um, to the general education classrooms and were participating was by utilizing peers.

Tim Villegas: Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. So, um, peer tutoring, what exactly, like, if, if no one had ever heard of what that is, like, how would you describe peer tutoring for, for those people? 

Rebecca Brooks: So, peer tutoring is when a peer is providing some form of support, oftentimes one-on-one support to another student. And so.

The role that I had and the way I was utilizing peers was having, um, a peer go with a peer with a disability to that student's classroom, which was the general education classroom and providing a wide variety of support. So it was very dependent on what that student needed. So some students needed.

Modeling might've needed reminders and, um, of what they should be doing during a task or an activity or having instructions re-explained, um, and really just being there to support the student in the classroom with class activities that peer being given instruction and guidance and training from both myself as the special education teacher as well as the general education teacher.

And so utilizing that. Here. Um, and what, what, whatever way that student needed, any extra supports that, um, any of the educators weren't able to provide, um, on the spot at that moment. Um, and one thing I also wanna add is another way that, um, I utilized peers was not just assigning a peer to one particular student, but sometimes assigning a peer to one class.

And so that peer then actually provided or could provide support to, um. Numerous students in the class. So it wouldn't just be one-on-one, it could be small groups. Um, they could, um, support any student in that class. 

Tim Villegas: Okay. Thank you for that. And I have a lot of questions. Okay. Um, I'm trying to think of the questions that it, people are listening, like what they might ask and so maybe they're thinking.

Okay. Uh, let's imagine this in a, in a high school context. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, how are these peers selected, first of all? 

Rebecca Brooks: Okay, let's go, 

Tim Villegas: let's go there first. 

Rebecca Brooks: Great. Great question. Um, so I have seen it done differently at different schools. Um, but I will share the way that I, um. Had students selected. So we, um, created a peer tutoring elective course, and so students could opt to enroll in that course.

Um, students were also recommended by course counselors or other teachers, um. We chose not to have specific requirements in terms of, it wasn't, the students didn't need a certain grade point average, or they didn't need to have letters of recommendation. Um, and we allowed it to be open to any grade level.

So ninth, 10th, 11th, and 12th. Um, and the reason I specifically, um. Made sure that it was open to everyone and anyone is, I have found over the years that all students had something to contribute, um, and could share their strengths and being a great peer tutor, you know, if it's something they wanted to do.

And so the way, um, the students, any student could enroll in the course. But then when you, when you said like, how are they selected? Um, the part that I feel like that we were. Selective in is how we made those matching. So peer tutors would complete a survey and so we would learn, you know, obviously what grade they were in, um, what courses they've taken before, what courses that they've already taken that they really loved, you know, that that might be a strength for them to go to that class to be a peer tutor with a student.

Um, what clubs and activities and sports did they play? What interests? Um, we had students involved in lots of elective. Courses, um, as well as the core academic classes. So, you know, if we find, if we were reading that appeared. Tutor, you know, um, had experience in drama and we had a student in a theater arts class, then that might be, you know, a good connection.

And so we worked really hard to match our peer tutors with the classes and the students. Um, and so, and build on the, the peer tutors strengths, um, to make those matches as well as their experiences that they've had. And so that's how we really worked at, um. Having it be an open class and then us selecting what would be the best role as a peer tutor.

And one thing I also, um, would like to add is that. We would have, um, since we allowed it to be an, you know, course open to anyone, um, we would oftentimes have more peer tutors than we would even have students that needed support. Mm-hmm. Um, and we did that purposely because if a peer tutor was absent, then we had.

A student that could go in place of that peer tutor, you know, when someone was out. But then also there were some students that maybe their strength wasn't going necessarily to a class and providing one-on-one support. Um, but there was a lot of other ways that they could support things that we were doing.

We were creating, um, lots of accommodations and modifications for students with the curriculum. Um, you know, using lots of different programs and technology for that and things that were sometimes time consuming. And there were students that, that was their strength. Um, we did a, you know, a lot of things creating Yeah.

Visual curriculum. Um, and at the time we were using lots of different, um, communication devices or, you know, maybe building things. Um, with Boardmaker, um, we were utilizing things and creating it into braille, and so students were very excited to learn, oh, how do we make that? Or How could I do that? And I wanna say they came up sometimes with the best ways to adapt curriculum, um, as they were collaborating with us.

So sometimes that would've been a role of a peer tutor. So, um, I just wanted to, to, to explain that, um, as to why I felt like it was so important to, to keep it open. Because we always found a way for any student to have an active and effective role at being a, a peer tutor. 

Tim Villegas: Uh. So thank you. And then the, the other question that comes to mind is, are there any like ethical dilemmas with having, you know, peers be in that support educator role?

Because what you're describing sounds a lot like what a paraprofessional would do. Um, and then that probably. Like in my mind, uh, I have more questions after that, but let's just, let's go from there. 

Rebecca Brooks: That's a great question in that it gets asked often. Mm-hmm. Um, so the peer tutors are always directly trained and supervised, um, either by, if they were with me as the special education teacher behind the scenes and going in and out of classrooms or in a general education class with a general education teacher in that classroom supervising them.

So they were always, um. With support and under instruction, you know, as to what are the ways that they could provide support to students. Um, and lots of times people would ask about confidentiality. Mm-hmm. So nothing of any, um, no. I'm sorry, no personal information. Was ever shared, um, with peer tutors, um, the focus was never on, um, sharing any personal information.

It's always focused on support. How can you support another student? How can you help, you know, teach a concept to a student? And, you know, sometimes it was just reiterating what was being said. Again, they weren't in the role as teacher per se, but when you're in a class and a teacher's teaching the content and then someone's able just to maybe repeat something or demonstrate it, um.

Was just that extra layer of support that, that extra help that a student might need. So the, the responsibility or the full responsibility of teaching was never put directly on the peer tutors, right? Yeah. It was just more of, you know, Hey, can you help the student by doing this? Or can you explain that?

Um, yes. And then. Even with, um, adapting the curriculum, um, that was our responsibility. But they would come up with ideas that we might collaborate on, or we'd show them, Hey, can you just, you know, help us create something and then we would recheck it. Um, and so. It was always a very, a peer tutor role is always one that is very supported and very supervised.

Um, if that makes sense. Um, similar types of supports as a paraprofessional would give, but a paraprofessional would have a lot more independence and would, um, you know, have a lot more information, you know, about the students that they were supporting. 

Tim Villegas: Right, 

Rebecca Brooks: right. Um, if I hope that answers the question or you could kind of see Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Villegas: Absolutely. And so, um, that leads me into what that support looks like in documentation for an IEP. Um, 'cause again, I'm just imagining the questions that people would have as they're listening and saying, this sounds great. Um, and how would that, what, what kind of language or how have you seen that, um, in the documentation in the IEP.

Rebecca Brooks: Yeah, great question. So, um, depends on the district I was working at the time and what the templates were for the IEP. Um, sometimes there was already a box when you're looking at different support, so student could receive or an accommodation, um, and there would be, um, you know, peer support as an actual option.

So we would just have that checked. Sometimes it wasn't already there as an option, and so we would add it. In there, you know, when we're listing all the supports a student would need to be successful, we would then hand write in their, you know, peer support. Um, and one of the things, um, with the peer support being a part of an IEP, um.

A lot of times I would, um, or I should say always, I had students, um, actively come up with goals that they would want for themselves. And so a lot of students would say that, you know, if they were currently being supported by a paraprofessional, they wanted to be able to, they'd some of that adult support and have more of a peer support.

And so sometimes that was even written in there, you know, as a goal, depending on what we were working on with a student and some students who had. Peer support would say, I wanna go to a class by myself without peer support. They loved having peer tutors. Um, you know, lots of very, very natural friendships developed, you know, but sometimes, you know, it's not that they didn't want that individual, they just wanted to be more independent.

And our goal always was to fade peer support as much as possible, as well as paraprofessional support, because we wanted the student, right, yeah. To become as independent as possible. You know, throughout their years with us. And so anytime we could fade support, we would, and sometimes it depended on the content of the class they were going to.

Some students could go to some classes independently and depending on the tasks involved or what was being taught in the classes they were going to, sometimes they might have a peer tutor for one class, but not a peer tutor for another class. 

Tim Villegas: Right, right. Um, so I'm imagining. Uh, people wondering about the, like, efficacy of peer tutoring, and I know there's a research base and I also, I, uh, the, the impression that I get, and I don't have any data to back this up other than a feeling, so help me, help me out if this is the wrong impression, but I feel like peer tutoring in general is underutilized.

Um, in relation to the research behind it. Is that a fair assumption? 

Rebecca Brooks: Yes, it is. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I feel like it's been, um. Underutilized for a very long time. Um, I wrote, I wrote an article many, many years ago and you know, the title was, um, peer Support and Inclusive Education and Underutilized Resource. Um, and I, I am happy to say that I.

Feel that with the collaboration that I'm still doing with schools, that I hear of more people, um, educators and school districts, you know, either trying to implement it or implementing some type of structured peer support system, which makes me very excited. Um, but I do know that I am still having, you know, that that dialogue with schools where, you know, they want to have, um.

More effective inclusive education opportunities for students. And the one thing they'll often say is to either why students aren't more successful in, um, inclusive settings and or why maybe students aren't being included in general education classes is because the lack of supports and the lack of resources.

And then we'll have that conversation, oh, well, you know, are you using peers or have you've considered using peers? And, um. A lot of the schools that either aren't, aren't being, aren't implementing more inclusive opportunities, um, or that they're feeling it's not as successful as it could be. You know, a lot of them aren't utilizing the peers.

And the good news is they're very, the, in my experience, you know, they're very open to it, um, but just haven't started implementing it or don't know how to implement it. Um. And, you know, trying to learn how can we use this, you know, for free resource on our campus at our, at our fingertips to help support students.

And while there's so many benefits, which, you know, the research supports for students with disabilities, having that extra layer of supportive, a peer, um, there's also so many benefits for the peer tutors as well. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah, I'd imagine those benefits would be the same, you know, just, uh. You know, as thinking about implementing inclusive education, just the, the, the outcomes of learners with disabilities, um, being able to graduate, um, being able to, um, uh, find and, uh, maintain employment, uh, quality of life.

I mean, all those, all those things I would imagine are the same. Um, I, so when I think about peer tutoring often. What often comes to mind are what schools, uh, tend to implement, like peer buddy programs or peer friendship programs where, uh, learners, you know, typically developing peers are, uh, paired up with a learner with a disability maybe for lunch or maybe for activities outside of the school day.

Um. Maybe they have some sort of sports program that's outside that's extracurricular and all those things, you know, um, are not necessarily bad, but they doesn't sound the same as peer tutoring. Is there, um, is there like a common misconception or confusion between the, the two? 

Rebecca Brooks: Um, I. I think sometimes and, and when I've often seen there being more of a, a peer buddy system, like you said, where students are paired during lunch or during certain activities.

In my experience, a lot of times when I've, um, I. Then at schools that are utilizing peers in that way. The students with disabilities aren't in the general education classes for their core academic learning. Mm-hmm. And so, um, those opportunities aren't there because the students aren't in those classes, is what I've seen.

So, um, not so much a misconception, but they're not utilizing the peers, you know, at that time. Um. Because the students aren't currently being taught in those settings, um, is what I've personally seen when I see that, you know, oh, that's just at this particular time of the day. Um, when I am working with schools where students are in the general education classrooms throughout the day, um, that's where I do typically see more use of peers or we are using paraprofessionals and they're just stretched thin, trying to get to all the different classes with all the different students and, you know, doing the best they can.

Um, you know, I, I very much so support the natural supports in classrooms. So if other students in the class are naturally able to support students, then that's great as well. Um, but if a, if a student could really benefit from just having that one-on-one support with them in the class, and they're. There isn't enough staff at the school to do that.

And I always say I wouldn't have wanted a one-on-one adult with all of the students I had all day long anyway. Not that I didn't, you know, love the paraprofessionals I worked with. Um, it's just the students, it, it, it's a huge difference when an adult, as you probably know, is right next to a student versus another student.

Um, just those opportunities to be fully embraced and included in, in conversations and activities when they're more with those peers and, um. Worked very closely with the paraprofessionals that I worked with that were really great if they still were, you know, out and about in those classes. Fading that a little bit and letting some of the, the natural peer support in the class or an assigned peer tutor step in and kind of just take over those roles.

And again, it looks very different. Um, some students need just a little bit of support and some students, you know. Needed, you know, more support to be able to truly access maybe an activity, um, or to be engaged. But just having someone right there really was, you know, really enabled them to be able to participate and, and get as much as they could out of those educational experiences.

I 

Tim Villegas: think, uh, I think what you're, what I'm hearing, um, is a, um, a point that I'd like to. Emphasize and highlight for our audience is that we, we really should be talking about peer tutoring in the context of learners being included and for systems and districts to even entertain this idea. Um, it's really in support of the larger goal of systems change in a, in a system, right?

So, um. This, this may sound great, uh, to some school leaders. Um, but I also want to encourage that this is just probably, this is just one piece of really transforming a system to be more inclusive, um, and. I'm wondering if you've, in the, this, in the schools that you've worked with or observed, uh, utilizing peer tutoring, is there a larger goal of, um, really, you know, scheduling and for natural proportions, um, a supporting learners with complex support needs in general education classrooms?

Like this is just kind of one thing that out of many that need to be happening, is that right. 

Rebecca Brooks: No, absolutely. I mean, um, you absolutely need to create that inclusive culture and like you said, scheduling, um, you know, that's a whole piece to it. Um, I work so closely with, um, counselors and scheduling and, um, you know, having students, um, you know, pick classes just like any other student.

And, you know, looking at their IEPs and aligning it with their goals and getting, you know, a great schedule for them. Um, and then yes, that, that peer tutor support is one piece. You know, of making that happen. Um, and so you can create this great schedule and you can get students in the classes. Um, but if they get in there and they need more support and you don't have that support, then they may not have that same experience that we were hoping for.

Um, and so we always think about, um. Um, the triangle of supports and thinking about the triangle being three pieces. You know, one, making sure that they have access to the curriculum. Um, the other piece, making sure that they have, um, any assistive technology, um, that would provide them more access, um, to participate.

Um, and then the other piece being personal supports. And personal supports, of course, can be educators and paraprofessionals, but we also look at peer tutors as one of those. Pieces of personal supports. And so what we find in students that are, you know, very successful, you know, is making sure that if a student needs any piece of that triangle, that they're given those supports.

Um, and so peer tutoring being one piece of that big picture, um, to make sure that they can, um, you know, um, participate as much as possible. 

Tim Villegas: Are, are there any, like potential downsides or maybe, um, you know, cautionary tales about, about this implementing peer tutoring? 

Rebecca Brooks: Um, the one thing I would say is if there wasn't when we, I keep saying, you know, structured mm-hmm.

Is that if there wasn't a structure where peers were getting the training and support that they needed, um, then I could see that being as a potential downside because as much as we want the student with the disability to be successful, we want the peer tutor to be successful. 

Tim Villegas: Do you have any. Stories that come to mind, like it has really good implementation of how, you know, peer tutors, how, how peer tutoring has like impacted learners.

Rebecca Brooks: So in, in my experience, um, I know I had, um, a caseload that ranged from anywhere from, gosh, 12 to 16 students that I was supporting. Um, and looking at, um. Six period school day with all of the classes. Um, and I always said I can't teach all of the different subject areas, you know, that's being offered at our high school and, and wanting the students to have access to everything that was great that was being offered on our campus.

Um, I, by myself and with the paraprofessionals, would not have been able to successfully support all those students in all those different periods throughout a day. Um, and so. For me, thinking about what was very successful, um, and that impacted learners was having that peer tutor elective course because typically we would range anywhere from a hundred to 120 peer tutors that we were utilizing so that every student had a different peer tutor every period as students changed classes and the peer tutors were changing their classes and the impact on their educational experience was, um.

Was huge. Um, the, the, the number of classes that they were able to attend and go to and be fully supported, um, their success in the classes, collaborating with all of the general education teachers and, you know, being able to see, you know, things happening in classes, hearing great success stories of, you know, ways that the peer tutors were able to, um, you know, be that extra set of hands sometimes to, to help a student, you know, give a presentation in a class or participate in a lab activity.

Um. And you know, our focus, you know, of course is academically, but we also know there's so many other benefits as well. And for a lot of students, we are working with them on social skills and you know. Other aspects of their school day. And, um, being able to just see the, the, the peer tutor be able to naturally support in that the, the natural, um, opportunities to work on those social skills.

Like I said, a lot of natural friendships, you know, ended up developing. Um, I have, I can't count how many times I've run into, um. Previous peer tutors of mine from years ago in the community, and they're so excited to tell me, you know, how they're still friends with a student they supported and it had been 10 years, you know, and sharing, you know, different things that they're doing together, you know, out, you know, um, out in the community, different, you know, either clubs or sports or one was talking about, you know, a gaming, uh, a game that they play together online still and, and how they're connecting and.

And so, um, just seeing all of those benefits, um, you know, firsthand of how it impacted those students during their high school experience and their involvement. And then being able to be in so many classes because we were able to support students so that they could, um. Have an inclusive opportunity in their schools.

Um, the, you know, everybody that they know on campus and walking down the hall halls and everybody knowing, um, you know each other, um, that helps, you know, continue that, um, inclusive culture that we are trying to create. Um. And then the, the impact also, as I mentioned earlier on the peer tutors, um, you know, so many of those students, you know, have again, reached out to me years later and, and shared with me how their career choice, you know mm-hmm.

Was really, um, turned after. Being, having the experience of a peer tutor, you know, some, um, you know, have gone on, of course, to be special education teachers or just a teacher in general. Or they've decided to be, you know, a speech language pathologist or, you know, something related that they'd had experience, you know, in seeing and being a part of supporting students, um, which is really exciting to see that.

And. So the benefits of, um, you know, how it impacts them, um, and also academically. Um, sometimes I feel like that isn't talked about as much. Um, peer tutors learn academically as well. We think of the, the social context of the benefits of, you know, learning to, to support another student or learning about learning differences or disabilities.

Um, but I had, um. Worked with students and looking at the academic content of what they knew before going to support a student in a class, and then what they learned at the end of it. And they too learned academically, even though they weren't being asked to complete the homework assignments. They weren't being asked to study for the test, right?

Yeah. But because they were having to listen. And then re-explain it to someone, right? Yes. They were gaining that knowledge, not even realizing it. And what I really loved is students would say to me, um, because sometimes, um, we'd find a good match. When we did that survey of a student who had maybe taken a biology class the year before and said, oh, I love that class.

I love that teacher. I wanna go support a student in that class. And they would come back and say. I learned more this year in that class being a peer tutor than I did when I actually took that class last year. That is amazing. 

Tim Villegas: That's so amazing. And so just 

Rebecca Brooks: lots of feedback, you know, from peer tutors about what they're learning academically as well, and, and so I think that's an important piece.

Um, especially when, um, developing peer tutor elective courses and, you know, looking at the, the benefits and if it's, if it's a new course and presenting it to a school, you know, that. Highlighting all of the benefits, not just for the students with disabilities, because that's what people focus on because that's what we're creating it for.

But such an impact on, um, the peer tutors. And then, you know, thinking about, I always like to think about those peer tutors or the, you know, the ones who are going to go on to be, you know, hopeful potential, you know, maybe employers or coworkers or. You know, um, doctors or whatever it might be, interacting with, um, you know, people with disabilities or, or parents of children with disabilities, and them having the experience of getting to know people with disabilities and learning that, you know, all people, you know, can learn.

And you know that how, um, how there are ways that, um, all, all pe, all individuals can, um, be included in, in all activities that we're looking at.

Tim Villegas: Um, I, I have, uh, two more questions, um, as we wrap up. And the first one is about how, is there any consideration in how and how we're preparing the peers? Um, or even like, I, I don't even know if this is, um. If this is applicable, but about this helper help be relationship type of type of thing. Because what I'm hearing is the peer tutors become friends with the, the learner who's supported.

Um, but is there any. Is there any training or any consideration in how that relationship, um, you know, grows throughout the school year? 

Rebecca Brooks: So I, I hope I'm understanding your, your question correctly, so I'll start to answer and you let me know. Yeah, yeah. Um, in, when we do trainings with the peer tutors, um, one of the first things we talk about is how to be an effective peer tutor and what does that look like?

Mm-hmm. And we. Really highlight that they are not to be the teacher that we, you know, that they are working with someone that's their same age group as themselves. And how, if they had someone their age, you know, either a friend or a tutor, assigned tutor helping them, how would they want to be treated?

How would they want to be talked to, you know, how would they wanna be talked about? You know, we really talk about not talking about people right in front of people. Um. And thinking about, um, how it is that they interact with that individual. And so that is part of our training so that they really have an understanding of that.

They are, like you said, they're helping someone, you know? Um, and so making it so they're, they don't feel like they're above that person. Mm-hmm. Um, and making sure that, um, that they remember that they're, that they're helping someone that's in, you know. In their same school, sometimes the same grade, sometimes you know, they might be, you know, different grades, levels, but you know, they're all students at the same school learning.

Um, and so I think that's very important. Some students do it very naturally, um, but sometimes, and I always say, um, I. A student, um, they always, um, support with the best intention. So they never mean to, you know, try, you know, to treat someone that they're supporting as if they know more that they're the teacher.

You know, they always are just trying to help their be their best, but we do some activities so that they can realize, oh yeah, you know, this is how I would wanna be helped, so this is how I'm gonna help someone else, if that makes sense. 

Tim Villegas: Mm-hmm. Yes. That totally makes sense. And I, I think that totally answers my question.

And as you were talking, I, I'm thinking about this word tutor because, and I think it's a really interesting and appropriate word because, um, you know, kids tutor each other all the time, right? Like, that's not a, it's not a strange concept. Uh, I mean. You know, is sometimes it's at school, sometimes it's after school.

Um, that is not, it's, and so it doesn't necessarily, like you can still support someone and help someone and become their friend, and that is an organic thing that happens. It's not this artificial, you know, um, you must tutor this person and look down on them type of thing. Um. And the other thing is you're not actually, like, the friendships may grow organically or they, or they don't and they don't have to.

Whereas some of the peer buddy programs are so focused on friendships that it could have an overemphasis on, like creating a friendship where they're just, you know, there there isn't one. 

Rebecca Brooks: Yeah. 

Tim Villegas: Right. Yeah, no. 

Rebecca Brooks: Exactly. So some, like I said, some naturally develop into friendships, which is, you know, wonderful when two people find things they have in common and they wanna, you know, maintain a friendship and, you know, and others like they know each other, they go their separate ways that, you know, they, you know of that, oh, there's another student I go to school with.

So they have that acquaintance connection, you know, but. It's just giving the, you know, it's just a, a natural opportunity that ends up, you know, occurring if you have a peer tutor support system. Um, it's just a, another opportunity to meet people. Just like if I was being tutored by someone in something, I, I may click with that person or I may not.

Um. And so I, you know. Absolutely. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so my last question before, um, and I did not prep you for this, but there we have a mis it's, we have a mystery question at the very end. Okay. So I'm just, I'm just gonna, just gonna put that out there for you. Um, and I'll explain what that is in a second.

But, um, the. Last question I have for as far as peer tutoring. If somebody is listening to this and going, this sounds awesome, I need to implement a structured peer tutoring, um, you know, program system at my school or district, like what are some resources? Where can people go, um, to find out more information?

Rebecca Brooks: So, um, what I have found to be most useful is being able to connect with other schools that are implementing programs, um, because there are lots of different ways. It's kind of what works best for the structure of the school as far as if you're building in, um, an actual course. Um, I've seen some schools utilize peer tutors, um, with the students being enrolled as say in its.

A teacher assistant, um, for either the special educator or a general education teacher. Um, so there's lots of different ways, you know, that it can be structured to meet the needs of a school. Um, and so in my experience of working with schools that were implementing new programs, um, being able to connect with and if possible, observing what it looks like, um, and being able to, um, see how schools are, um.

Implementing it themselves to be able to get some of those ideas. 

Tim Villegas: Great. And do, do you happen to know, like how would they find those schools? Just by asking around or is there a, is there a. You know, a website, database, uh, anything like, probably not. Yeah. 

Rebecca Brooks: No, not that I know of. That would be wonderful. Um, if there was, um, we've, um, when I've worked with different schools and doing it, it's been asking around within their district to see if anyone within their district was already implementing it.

You don't always wanna have to recreate the wheel. Um. You know, networking within your area to see, um, I am more than happy if anyone ever wanted to reach out to me directly, you know, for me to share more specifics. Um, I ha I have some, um, resources that I, um, personally, you know, used, um, when implementing those programs, um, that I am happy to connect with individuals and share based on whatever that individual's needs are, um, and being able to, um, you know, implement a program that would work best for them.

Tim Villegas: Great. Um, what's the best way to, for people to get ahold of you? Email? 

Rebecca Brooks: I would say email. 

Tim Villegas: Email. Okay. And it'd be okay if I. Put the email in the, your, your email, in our show notes. 

Rebecca Brooks: Yes. 

Tim Villegas: You're gonna get, you know, hopefully you'll get like a thousand requests, you know, that's what we want. Probably not that many, but hey.

And then also, um, if you're listening and going, Hey, we implement something very similar, or, you know. We, we do have a peer tutoring system at our school. Uh, definitely reach out to me and let me know, and then I can, um, also either put that in the show notes or somewhere and have some, like an informal, um, you know, way to contact, uh, schools that are doing this because, you know, bringing it back to, uh, at the beginning of our conversation, I feel like this is such a, uh, you know, wonderful way to layer on support.

I. In an inclusive, uh, school system that just isn't as utilized as, as it should be. And there's, you know, there's research behind it and, um, uh, it's just something we, that we should be doing more often. So, uh, thank you again for being, um, on our podcast and talking about this. Is there anything else you want to share, uh, to educators, uh, that, that maybe they could take away from this conversation?

Rebecca Brooks: Um, I. For me personally, um, I feel like I was able to be a more effective teacher, um, and ensure that students truly had the opportunities that they deserve to have in school, um, by having this extra layer of support available to students who needed it. So, you know, I highly encourage others to, you know, consider how they might be able to utilize peers on their campus.

Um. One thing that I, I did wanna make a mention of, um, is when you asked earlier, and I hope it's okay if I go back when you asked earlier about, um. How we selected, um, peer tutors. And I said, you know, it was open to anyone, um, students who might have disabilities themselves could also enroll as a peer tutor.

And I just feel like that's just so important to say, um, because I wouldn't want anyone to be excluded from that opportunity because like I said, you know, everyone has something to give. Um, and um, I will, I'll share one success story. Um. I had a student who was a peer tutor who, um, had a reading, um, disability themselves, um, and was really excited to be a peer tutor.

And again, when we match students, you know, we think where are their strengths and what do they wanna do? Um, but we had a student who was learning how to read and was going to a class and using lots of picture supports to, you know, engage with and learn from the content. And, you know, practicing learning sight words.

And so we always ask. The peer tutors, Hey, we're thinking about this class and you know, or maybe this level of support to a student. What do you think? And he was very open to it. And so we thought it was a good match if he was comfortable with it. And we felt, um, that, you know, academically he could provide that support to the student.

And during teacher conferences, because it was a peer tutor elective course, we got all the parents, um, of students who were peer tutors, you know, as, as well as. All of the other students I supported on campus and his mom came in and had shared that she had seen such a huge difference in his own self-esteem.

Um, you know, just personally at home as well as academically with school. 'cause he was coming home and saying, I, I'm teaching someone to read. You know, and she said, you know, that, you know, that was something that's always been a challenge for him. And here he's able to teach someone in his motivation, you know, um, to.

To improve his own reading was also improving, you know, and I would just never want, um, and like I said, you know, a student to be excluded from helping someone else 'cause they themselves, you know, might have supports that they need. So, um, I just wanted to show that in thinking about, you know, who, who could be a good peer tutor, I would say everyone 

Tim Villegas: that, oh, great example.

Thank you for sharing. Uh, yeah. Um. I imagine how powerful that is, you know, to, to have, to have a learner that, you know is, is, um, supporting a another learner with something that they, uh, a challenge that they had. Right. That's, that's amazing. It's amazing. Um, okay. Thank you for sharing all of that information.

Uh, before I let you go. I have a segment called the Mystery Question, and I have a stack of cards and they're all, you know, prompt cards. I don't, I've, I've seen them all, but I don't know which one. And then we will both answer the question. 

Rebecca Brooks: Okay. Okay. 

Tim Villegas: And they're pretty, they're usually pretty light.

Hopefully they're light. Oh, this is, uh, this is, uh, this is funny. Okay, so what words, if any, do you always struggle to spell correctly? I. Oh my goodness. I have one. I know. I know which one. I know which one. 

Rebecca Brooks: Okay. Um, conscientious. 

Tim Villegas: Conscientious, oh gosh, I don't think I can spell that right now. I'm not gonna make anyone spell anything right now.

Oh my goodness. I can do it, but I, I have 

Rebecca Brooks: to think really hard art. 

Tim Villegas: Um, for me it's restaurant. 

Rebecca Brooks: Okay. I 

Tim Villegas: cannot, for the life of me spell restaurant, I'm actually, um, I'm actually not a good speller. Um, I've never been a good speller, like, uh, spell check has always been my friend. And then, uh, I've, I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but I use Grammarly as, um.

Uh, for grammar help, and it's a little humbling as a communications director to have grammar, to have Grammarly and the support, but, um, it is, it's just so much I. It frees me up to be able to communicate in the way that I want to, uh, to have the spelling and the grammar support. And then I can go through and being like, okay, is this exactly what I wanna say?

And then, um, and I've used it for years. I started using it when I was a, in a teacher in the classroom. And, uh, it's just been a lifesaver. So, um, I don't often think about things I don't have to spell unless I don't have those supports. But fortunately texting is so much, um, it's so much easier. And you know what else I do is I use voice text a lot.

Do you use that? 

Rebecca Brooks: Yes. Yes. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. I always like, I, it's like too much energy to like type out and like having to like go and like, that's not what I meant. And so now I just use the voice text. So yes, 

Rebecca Brooks: but the voice text errors can be That's true. Funny and troubling. That's true. 

Tim Villegas: Rebecca Brooks, thank you so much for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast.

We really appreciate it. It 

Rebecca Brooks: was my pleasure.

Tim Villegas: That's it for this episode of Think Inclusive Time for the credits, think Inclusive is written, edited, designed, mixed, and mastered by me, Tim Villegas and is a production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Original music by Miles Reich. Additional music by melody. Thank you so much to our sponsor, IXL.

Learn more at Ixl.com/inclusive. We appreciate each and every one of you that listens and we'd love to hear from you about how you are using these episodes. Are you using them for a class you teach or are you sending them to school administrators? Are you sharing them with your family or friends? And colleagues, uh, let us know.

You can always reach out to me at tvillegas@mcie.org. That's T-V-I-L-L-E-G-A-S at M-C-I-E dot O-R-G and if you are still listing this far into the episode, it probably means that you love. Think inclusive and the work MCIE is doing. So can I please ask you a favor? Help us to keep it going by donating at our website, mcie.org

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From mCIE.