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Dan Watt: Neurotypical kids and kids with disabilities working together as one. And the humanity that comes out of that and the kinship, the friendships, everything that was developed in there to me is what makes her studio so special. It's a community. It's a community of dancers. So these are dancers helping other dancers learn how to dance, and that's all it is.

Tim Villegas: Hi friends. Welcome to Think Inclusive. I am Tim Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. And what you just heard, uh, was our amazing guest this week. Dan Watt, who is a 2024 Emmy award winning producer and director of the documentary Everybody Dance. I am. Recording from Baltimore, Maryland at the Baltimore Convention Center at the CEC Conference.

Dan worked for five years at Columbia Pictures in the film development department on films like House Bunny with Anna Ferris and just go with it with, with Jennifer Aniston and Adam Sandler. Uh, Dan went on to work with people, uh, like Simon Cowell on the documentary film about the band One Direction.

This is us. Dan is currently in production on an untitled documentary with Tony and Pulitzer Prize winning producer Daryl Roth. and a documentary with Rosie O'Donnell, we're so thrilled to have you here. Whether you're listening to you or watching Think Inclusive, MCIE's podcast that brings you conversations with people doing the work of inclusion in the real world.

Like I said before, we're here in Baltimore, Maryland for the CEC conference. Our CEO Dr. Carolyn Teigland is uh, presenting on Friday, and I'm here as support. Trying to meet as many people and talk to as many people about inclusive practices as possible and tell people about MCIE and what we do. In this episode of Think Inclusive, Dan and I chat about his film Everybody Dance, and this documentary follows five students with disabilities as they learn ballet, jazz.

And tap in Bonnie's Dance Studio showcasing their determination, confidence, and the power of an inclusive community. Dan shares some great stories. I'm not gonna spoil them for you. Uh, he also explains why creating an inclusive environment is easier than you might think and offer some great advice for teachers.

And if you're thinking, I'm not sure this movie is for me, lemme tell you that one of the things that I really loved about everybody dance is that it centers the voices of students. So you won't want to miss this conversation. Before we get into my interview with Dan, I want to tell you about our sponsor for this season.

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Dan Watt welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast. Well, it's a pleasure to be here. Uh, Dan. Uh, so for those of you, uh, watching on YouTube, you can see Dan and you can see in the background of Dan is a movie poster. And Dan, will you tell us what that movie posters says? 

Dan Watt: Well, it says everybody dance. It is my 2024, um, Emmy award-winning documentary that I produced and directed.

Tim Villegas: So yeah, it's fantastic and it is a fantastic film. I did see it, um. Well, when, when we first talked a, a few months ago mm-hmm. When we first were setting at this interview. Uh, but it's a, it's a wonderful film. Uh, thank you so, so much for making it. And it tell me, uh, right before we kind of officially started recording, you were telling me that it aired on PBS and they, you said they submitted it for, for an Emmy, is that right?

Dan Watt: Yeah, and they didn't, didn't tell me. You know, I mean. I knew that they, they could, but I didn't give it any thought. You know, it's PBS, you know, who knows, you know? Right. Um, but they aired it, uh, they did a limited airing of it, and they submitted it, and then it got selected, uh, to be in the, the top five.

And I, and so then they, uh, Michelle emailed me from PBS and said, well, congratulations. You're one of the five nominated. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, for the Emmys. And I'm like. Oh wow. And because you know that's not, that's just. Not in your, you know, the average person's, uh, thought process.

Right. And then, and when we were there, it, it truly, and I hate, I always hated when people said this at award shows. Oh, I didn't expect it. You know, and I'm like, you're full of shit. Um, oh, I don't know if you audio, sorry, 

Tim Villegas: bleep.

Dan Watt: Um, but there was a another documentary up that was. Uh, about books being taken out of schools, and that's just such a current thing. I thought, well, they're gonna win because that's like Right. You know, in the news right now. Um, and then they announced my name and my film and I won. So here we are. Yeah.

That's, that's amazing. 

Tim Villegas: So did you have like a, was it one of those things where you had to go up and like give a speech and stuff? 

Dan Watt: Yeah. 

Tim Villegas: Wow. 

Dan Watt: Yeah, you're just over there in the, you know, documentaries are like over there in the corner. Part of my, part of my speech was I'm exhausted. They sat me way over there.

I had to go upstairs, downstairs, around a, around a railing and then up more stairs and I was like, my time's gonna be up before I even get there. Oh my 

Tim Villegas: goodness. Oh my goodness. Um, well, uh, tell us a little bit about the film. I know I've seen it. Um. But I'd love to just in your own words, uh, and for our audience, uh, who is mostly educators, um, kinda the premise of the film and, and why was it in important for you to tell this story?

Dan Watt: Well, uh, in the, in a synopsis, the, I follow five kids on their journey through life and towards their dance recital. They all take, uh, ballet, um. Jazz and tap at a dance studio here in the valley in New York, up in New York, in Los Angeles. And I started the film when the teacher made the announcement to the kids that she was gonna do a recital.

So we get their reaction of, I'm sorry, what are we doing all the way through the recital. So the word dance is in the title, but it's not. A movie about dance because I follow them parallel their, their home life, their, you know, their parents and they're telling their stories. So to me it's more of a documentary about determination, uh, dedication, confidence, and the community that HA has created in.

Bonnie's Dance Studio, which is called Ballet for All Kids. So it's more of that and it's, and it's what did the, what did they learn while taking dance that they can apply in their everyday life? And that's what was my goal. And that's what was fascinating for me, uh, is to see, you know, how the parents applied the discipline at home, how, uh, they.

Would say you're gonna do your homework just like in in dance class for the next 50 minutes. You know, focus on this and then we'll move on to something else. And just the repetitiveness and all those things. How it helped them, how they can apply what they learned in dance in everyday life. 

Tim Villegas: Mm-hmm. Um, and.

You show the, the, the story through, um, the, the individuals that the, the, the young people's like words and, and thoughts as well, which I really loved about the film. 

Dan Watt: Yeah. I made a, a, I am neurotypical and I gave it a lot of thought of how to film this and what to do, and I wanted to make sure that I. That it was their stories in their words, and I was just offering that platform because I thought this can be a great learning tool for everybody just to hear, you know, to be able to have conversations with the parents and the kids and just sit back and listen.

This is what. This is how their life is. And to be able to have that insight to something that we're usually, you know, how many people, neurotypical people might have someone, I think everybody has someone in their family now that is somewhere on the spectrum. And I think that it just gives, it gives, um, it gives us an insight and the conversations, what these kids said, um, I.

Touched my heart and, and actually, uh, changed the way I think. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. T tell me more about that. Because you, you went into this project maybe with some assumptions about people with disabilities. Um, not to say they were necessarily bad assumptions, but you probably had. A way of thinking. How, how did that change as you completed the project?

Dan Watt: Well, I'll tell you, well, first I was there every weekend, uh, Saturday and Sunday for 10 months. So these kids and parents became my family and I'm still friends with, with most of them. But I also was a dancer in my early career and a dance teacher. So I was lucky that I had the insight of. Of those two, uh, in my background to be an educator and also a dancer.

But it, I could tell you a specific moment when I, when I realized that I was thinking different. It, we were about four months in and I went to Target, uh, for my, you know, last minute Christmas shock, uh, shopping, the stocking stuffers, and I was going down an aisle and there was a girl laying on the floor having a conniption.

And as I. Walked by. I went, oh, I wonder if she's on the spectrum. And I just kept shopping and I got in my car and I started to cry because I didn't think, what a rotten kid, what a horrible mother. Why isn't the mother handling this? Why is this going on in a store? There was no judgment. There were that. I just went on with my day and I thought the switch in my brain had flipped and I, and I just was so.

Thankful and grateful that that happened to me. And I thought, now I need to make sure that this movie, or try my best mm, try my best to see if I can make that my movie, do that for someone else. And all it was is because I was exposed to it for four months and when, and it just, it just opened up. It opens up your heart and your mind, and you just start thinking different.

Tim Villegas: Yeah. I see a parallel between your story and kind of just this idea of exposure to, one of the big messages that, that we, we try to tell educators is when you have. When you have learners with and without disabilities learning together and living together, playing together, then it's no longer this strange occurrence when.

You know, you know, maybe, maybe, oh, somebody is on the ground because they're having, you know, some sensory difficulties or, you know, maybe they're, uh, making some noises that would be considered strange, or maybe they're moving in a way that is different. Um, but when you're exposed to that over time, it's just like, oh, it's just.

It is just that person. It's just that individual. Uh, and you know, and maybe there's something going on or maybe there isn't. It's just right part of the fabric of whatever the environment is. 

Dan Watt: Well, and if you, if we just focus on our similarities, life is just so much easier and that's what's so great.

About Bonnie's school is, the title is Ballet for All Kids. And you can walk by the studio and look in the window and you would never know if someone is on the uh, autism spectrum or not, because she takes everyone and 30% of her students. Are neurotypical, they might just not pick up quick enough. You know, they're, maybe they're just born not quite as coordinated and they tried a normal, you know, ballet class or a jazz class and it just moved a little too quick.

So, you know, you just never know. And or the teacher, you know, I think as an educator. When I taught dance, I always offered four explanations for one thing. You know, I, a pot of beret is three steps. So I would go left, right, left, right, left, right. I'd go 1, 2, 3, you know, 2, 2, 3, 3, 2, 3. Backside side, backside side.

And I would show it because you never know what's gonna click in your student's mind. Mm-hmm. So if you offer all these different ways in. Hopefully one of them will work. And that's what's great with Bonnie. And I think if all educators can think that way, because it's just finding that way in that makes all the difference and then it just can open up somebody's life.

So IFI just went off on a tangent there and I don't remember what you asked. Um, did I ask 

Tim Villegas: something? I think it's just more of a comment that, that, um, that. The, the parallel between, you know, the inclusive, uh, an inclusive classroom or school where the expectation is that everyone is together. Um, and so I wanna unpack what something about what you said about, uh, about Bonnie and her class because, um, I think that there can be some misunderstanding about, um.

These certain kinds of CLA classes that maybe if you are uninformed, you think of like, well, that's the, you know, the quote unquote special needs class, you know, um, where they're only, um, you know, that's not a real class or whatever, you know? And so, um, I wanted to point that out because I think there's, I think there's certain instances where I.

You can have, um, like an extracurricular activity and the emphasis is really on. This is only for students or learners or children with disabilities. And it becomes more of a protective like, no, you, you know, you can't come into this class. You can't be a part of this class because this is only for. You know, d disabled individuals.

Uh, but what was really nice about seeing this film and that kind of bonnie's kind of way of, of doing it is that it really was, uh, for everyone. And so when you have spaces for everyone, then everyone can, it can be a safe space for everyone. Correct. Um, and, and so which makes me think like. You know, why do you think these particular programs or classes, um, are essential?

Like you spent a lot of time in this class. Like why, why was it important for this class to exist? 

Dan Watt: I think there's a key element that she does that, um, in her class, every person has a shadow. And it's, uh, a dancer who has had four or five years of training, and they're all volunteers because some kids might be in the class that, uh, there's a, um, a girl Dakota who can't stand up by herself.

So she's got braces, uh, on, you know, that she walks with. Um, and they wanted her to be in the recital. So what these shadows and mentors did is they held her up and they, they. Did the choreography with her. So she was a part of the, the dance, part of the dance that that class did. But it's also gives Bonnie more freedom to walk around the class when, you know, you have someone who, who's had five years of dance training and you've only had two months.

They can, they can adjust your feet and say, you know, no, let's, first position looks like a pizza slice, so let's open it up like that. But what that does is, is it puts. Neurotypical kids and kids on, uh, with all disabilities together, working together as one. And the humanity that comes out of that. And. The, the kinship, the friendships, uh, everything that was developed in there to me is what makes her studio so special because all some of these kids volunteered to do it for, you know.

How you have to volunteer so many hours for mm-hmm. You know, school credit and all that kind of stuff. And every one of them that I talk to sign up for like this six month volunteer program. And some have been there for six, seven years. Some of them have gone away to college and then come back and volunteer over the summer because they, it's just an, an inclusive family for everyone.

It's a community. Uh, it's a community of dancers. So these are dancers. Helping other dancers learn how to dance and that's all it is. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. 

Dan Watt: And it's, and I can tell you how important or, or how amazing it is to do it that way. As a friend of mine watched the film and she owns a dance studio closer to me and she said, can you help me?

Start a class like this. So we did it last Saturday and it's all inclusive. So there, there's like this cute little boy and the sister is in the class and the the boy, um, is on the spectrum, but the sister isn't. But there are also kids. And there was another boy who tried to take a ballet class and he's neurotypical also, but there were like 35 girls in this ballet class and him.

So they thought, well, so he was, you know, he was like, oh no. And he, he, he wouldn't go in there and his mom said, well, but he loved, he dances around the house. So the mom said, can we try this class? And uh, uh. Now I'm forget. Uh, my friend said, sure, of course. 'cause there's, you know, there's 15, there's only 15.

It's in a smaller studio. But then she took her dancers who have five, six years from her dance company, and they, they were the, the mentors in that class. Mm-hmm. And again, it was a dancer with a dancer. Now these girls are traditionally like. Russian trained ballerinas. Francesca is really tough. They're in a black leotard, pink tights and their hair in a bun.

Everybody in the studio, that's it. So they're not used to talking a whole lot except dance it. They walked there and it just turned into. Older dancers helping younger dancers. Everything else just melted away. There was nothing else mattered. It was okay, these are the steps we're learning now. And they would help each one of their, you know, the younger kids, just figure it out.

And I just, uh, Francesca and I were out in the hallway crying because to just see how nothing had to be said, it, it just. Happened. Yeah. Everything fell into place and it was a 15-year-old dancer helping a 9-year-old dancer. And to witness it and witness it happen within 10 minutes. Yeah. That it was just the love of dance and everything disappeared.

I, you know, all we could do was cry and you just, just realize that you could apply that in any area of your life. I, if you just are open to it, you know? How 

Tim Villegas: cool 

Dan Watt: is that? 

Tim Villegas: So cool. And, uh, while you were talking, it reminded me there's this, um, um, I'm not sure if it's a, if you would call it a strategy or not, but it's, there's this, um, method.

Uh, to further inclusive practices in school, then it's called like peer support. Mm-hmm. And there's actually a lot of research around peer support that, you know, if you, if you're listening and you're wondering, um, what that means, if you just, you know, if you start googling research about peer support and inclusive education, you'll, you'll find some, uh, really interesting, um, articles about it.

But, uh, and basically the research says that when you have. Neurotypical students who are tutors. For learners with disabilities in like a general education class or an inclusive classroom, um, that it's beneficial not only for the learner with this, with the disability, but also for the, the peer tutor.

And so it's a, it's actually an a very underutilized method in, in kind of in schools. You're essentially taking that model and using it in a, in a dance class, or you could, you could use it anywhere, like you said, in any kind of, any kind of, uh, environment. 

Dan Watt: Yeah, 100%. And it just, it, I think everybody's life is just better that way.

And I think back to when I worked at Columbia Pictures and I was new there. You know, you start as an intern and someone helps you. Mm-hmm. Learn this. This is what you do. When we give notes on a script, this is how we do it. This is what we do with this, this is what we do here. So we all have mentors and teachers in our life that help us get to the next level.

So there I was, you know, thrown into this world, uh, of film and television. Not knowing I knew how to produce, 'cause I produced live theater, but I never produced film and television. But the boss saw that I had something and it was just taking what I knew and turning it into their way. And there were just people that held my hand and walked me along that path.

Well, why would it be any different for someone who has autism or who has Down syndrome? Uh, it got me my job. It got me to the next level. It got me to the next thing. So it baffles my mind now because I've gone through it, that, that this is just not used everywhere. Mm-hmm. Accessible everywhere because we all, we all use tutors, we all use mentors.

We all, you know, we all need them in our life, so, okay. Here we go. It's not a big deal. 

Tim Villegas: Right, exactly. Exactly. Um, when you're thinking about the film, um, is there a particular story arc, um, that maybe highlights the, the message of the film? I, I know maybe the message isn't, what, isn't, like intentional. Like you, you don't go out like.

Making a film to have a message, but kind of a message that emerges. Was there one that, that really sticks out to you? 

Dan Watt: Well, yeah, there's a, uh, there's a quote from Alfred Hitchcock that Morgan Spurlock, who, who was my my mentor through all of this, when I would cry and text him at midnight. Um, and Alfred Hitchcock said something along the lines of.

In a film, the director is God in a documentary, the people in it are the director and you have to just follow them. So I was so glad that I knew that because, you know, I had to adjust to whatever stories were being told in front of me. And there's two that I absolutely love, and I'll tell you one, to show how, how if we work together as a community.

We can apply. We can apply these lessons and how it will help anyone in their life in other areas of their life. There's the girl, Maddie, who has Down Syndrome. Well, what Bonnie does in her dance class is on the floor. Everybody has a square and they're in different colored pieces of tape, and I think Maddie's was lime green.

When Maddie would step outside of her box, Bonnie would go, oh, where's Maddie? Where's mad? And Maddie would step in her box and then Bonnie would go, oh, Maddie, it's so nice to see you. So Maddie realized that the green box was her safe place, and that's where she, she can talk and she can be herself and is seen and accepted and all of that.

From that, from that lime green square, the mom and dad then bought Lime green. Place mats for her house. So she knew when, where she, when she ate. This is where, you know, this is where I should be, this is where I can talk. This is where there's structure and I'm safe and all of that. But it went even a step further in her school.

With her schoolwork, they put lime green tape around the edge of her desk, so she then knew this was her safe space, so it went from a square on the floor to where to be where she can be safe and heard and seen at home to in her. I don't wanna say traditional school, but where she learned math and all of that.

Then that teacher took that exact same thing, so they worked together because this, for whatever reason, it worked for Maddie, I. And then it, they just applied it in the other areas of her life. And I just thought, look at how, just by teachers communicating to each other, look what this just did. It just opened up Maddie's life in such a way, you know, in all areas.

And that is just it. It's communication, you know? And then the. Part that just touched my heart. The mo, one of the parts is when Liam is sitting on the couch with his mom and he said, I don't feel like I fit in at school, but at the dance studio I do. 

Mm-hmm. 

Dan Watt: And. I think so many people can relate to that.

Yes, he has autism, but I was a theater geek. I was, you know, how many, I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. How many boys dance in Cleveland, Ohio? I can tell you there were seven because I got, I was one of them in every production that ever went on in Cleveland, Ohio, there were seven of us. And we went from show to show, to show, you know, you know, seven guys doing guys and dolls.

And then there were. 14 girls with their hairs up under a hat dressing like a guy. But it, to find my community in theater and, you know, there's video games, there's, you know, there's so many different, we all wanna fit in. And being able to find that space where you're with like-minded people can make you flourish and, uh, expand and.

Find greatness. And that was, yeah, I was the producer, but I was also, in my mind, I, you know, I had turned into the dance teacher, so I'm crying in his, in his kitchen with his mom, and I'm like, wait, you have to film this. You have to just sit back and capture it on film because this is the story that people need to hear, hear.

You know. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. That's, uh, that's gotta be really difficult if you're the one capturing these moments and in the moment you're, you become, you become so attached to Yeah. You know, the, the people that you're, you're filming, right? Um, there's this, uh, we, we made this documentary series, this audio documentary series called Inclusion Stories, and I.

Uh, I was, I was doing some interviews at a conference in Baltimore, and it was with, uh, a number of young, um, like pre-service teachers, like people, uh, learning to become special education teachers. And I, I was, uh, the professor was a friend of mine and so she said, Hey, why don't you come and interview. Of these, these young people because they're really passionate about inclusion and inclusive education.

So here I am with the, my recorder and microphone in hand, and we're doing interviews and the, uh, the professor looks over and goes, oh my gosh, that is my mentor. You know? Mm-hmm. Um, the one that taught me, and here I am, the teacher teaching these people and, um. It was hard not to get choked up. Yeah. Um, because it's, it's just so powerful to see, um, uh, people get passionate about, uh, you know, I.

This type of thing about inclusion, about, about community. Right. And, and even though I was the spectator, I was, I was the observer, I was the recorder. Uh, it was, I, I don't think I, I held it together very well. 

Dan Watt: Well, even when I watched the movie now, and there's a point, I don't wanna give away the ending, but we, you know, we end up with the recital, but there's the girl, Sarah, who was.

I think 17 and 18 when we filmed, um, walked for the first time. And we capture that on film. She took about eight steps and she fell. And then there's the, the, the part at the recital. And, and again, to see her walk, we just happened to be there. Mm-hmm. You know, and I thought, I have angels, um, looking over my shoulder that our, you know, put me here at this, this time to capture this story.

Um, but again. You started to cry. Bonnie's crying. Sarah's crying. And I'm like, you know, so you, you know, thank God my cameraman didn't, was just wasn't, he was doing his job as just. Filming. So thank God he was focused. 'cause this emotional wreck lost it then, you know? Um, but to, to see that after 17 years, you know, her, whatever, and they still haven't diagnosed her.

There's just a, there's something not connected from her brain to like below her knees, everything. So she, it, she couldn't, it, it doesn't transmit. Mm-hmm. For the lower part to move well. Because of all the re uh, repetition of five or six years in dance class holding onto the bar or holding onto her mentor and helper, look what happened.

I. You know. Yeah. It took a while, but you know, I didn't get to Columbia pictures till I was in my forties, so, you know, it took a while. 

Tim Villegas: There you go. Yeah. 

Dan Watt: Who gives us, nevermind. 

Tim Villegas: Who gives a hoot?

You're gonna have to pull out that, uh, that bleeper again. I know. I said hoot. I got caught. Yeah, you did. You did. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Um, well, like I said, uh, earlier. Dan, we have a lot of teachers that listen. So I'm wondering if you, you know, I mean, Bonnie's a teacher, right? Because she teaches the class and you, you observe that.

I'm wondering, um, any clues to how you can create an in inclusive, uh, classroom with what you observed with, with Bonnie, and then just your experience, um, being with, with these families for 10 months. 

Dan Watt: Well, I think it's, it's. So much easier than, than people think. Going back to why I'm, why this movie came to me when I was a dance teacher.

Well, first my idea was. So I wanted to talk to people who studied the arts, but never became a, a professional in it. Say, did your mom make you take piano for four years and that, you know, or violin or singing or, you know, go be in the theater to get used to talking in front of people, but you never made a career out of it.

What did you, what helped you in that, during those studies? That was my initial idea, but I had a dream of. A woman, Fran and her two daughters. Now, this was before I started filming, so it was 18 years ago then, but probably 20 now. And both of Fran's daughters had autism. Now figure 20 years ago, I knew nothing about it.

I have not been trained in anything in this area except now filming the movie. Um, and. Working on another one, but we'll talk about that. 

Yeah. 

Dan Watt: But I thought, why am I dreaming about Fran and her two daughters? I mean, what a weird dream to have. And I didn't give it any more thought. 'cause I really don't remember my dreams that much.

But then I dreamed about him again. A couple weeks later and I thought, this is God pushing me. This is my higher power going. This is your way in. You can still tell, tell the same story of how the arts can be applied in everyday life, but I'm telling you, do it this way. Go this way. So I trusted my gut and I did it.

But the reason I'm telling you that story is I was in my. Twenties as a dance teacher, not knowing anything about teaching anyone with a disability. But I talked to Fran and she said, we know our daughters, it might take them a little longer to get from Jazz one to Jazz two, and we've talked to them, you know, so don't promote them if they're not ready.

And they understand that Allie might learn a little quicker, so Allie will go to jazz too, but you guys will stay here. So then all I did was teach my class, like I taught any other class and I knew that the one daughter was, um, sensory sensitive, so did not touch her. So just show her with my arms and then after class, you know, talk to the mom and is there anything that they had questions about?

But I just taught. Like any other class, and then they then. After about a year and a half, I moved them. As the kids get better in a dance class, you move the ones who know your warmup to the front so you can go around and Correct. And they're the ones leading the class. And I moved both of her daughters up because they were ready and one of them started to cry and I thought, oh no, I.

I have messed up everything. Everything I taught for a year and a half is now going out the window. And she said, no, she's crying tears of happiness because she knows she's now good enough to be in the front row. And I, and all that, I, all I did was teach dance and come up with different ways. To show and explain to them, but not just them.

Like I said earlier, a pot of beret, you, if you give them five different versions of it, even it's the same thing, but you're offering different ways in what's going to click for you, you know? When you're playing basketball to, you know, to get it in the hoop. I can't do that. It, it, nothing clicked for me with that.

But you know, you just offer different, you know what it's like if, if one teacher tells you one thing, but you're sick of your math teacher because you've been there for a year and another teacher words that just slightly different. It now makes sense. So as a dance teacher, I just tried to give all my students.

Different ways to get into it. And I thought it, and then as I went to the studio, I thought, oh my gosh, it, this can be, this can be applied everywhere. 

Mm-hmm. 

Dan Watt: Just any kid could, should be able to go into any class. I think we put up barriers because we think it's gonna be harder and what are we gonna have to do and how, what is there extra work in it for me?

And there really isn't. 

Tim Villegas: So, right. And, and that's what 

Dan Watt: I took away from all of this, because now I'm like, why? Why isn't, why, why not? Why not, right? 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Well, I, I think, I think you just said it and I think it was really evident in how you described, uh, you know, it how you. Taught your class is that the mindset barrier was not, was was gone.

Like you already had the assumption that they belonged in your class, right? 

Dan Watt: Yeah, 

Tim Villegas: yeah. It wasn't like, oh, that this, this kid's not getting it. They don't belong here, you know, which is unfortunately, I think part of the problem is that, yeah, there's a mindset that's. If you can't keep up or if you can't do something yet, then you don't belong in this particular class.

But what I'm hearing is, um, you basically, you, you teach them until they can do it and then Yeah. You know, and you expect them to make progress, 

Dan Watt: right? 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. 

Dan Watt: And everybody makes progress at their, their own, their own pace. You know, so, and I think, I think the, and maybe it's because I was the, the, I was actually, they labeled me the jazz boy in Cleveland, so I was the jazz boy dancer.

But I think that social labels, you know, we are put in these categories, be it, you know, race, gender, class, sexual orientation, you know, the. And these labels, people then come up with expectations. But these are labels that other people came up with. Hmm. And applied them. And I'm like, well, what? But you don't even know.

You know what I mean? And it, it's, I think it's because I went, I've lived it. Mine was just a different label over here that I, it these, these stereotypes then. The stereotypes then come up can result in unrealistic and false expectations, if that makes sense. And I think that's where it might get stuck in this world is like you said, someone hears the word autism and they.

They now expect this, or you know, because they haven't lear, they haven't investigated or learned anything or been exposed to it. So they now have expen expectations and a mindset of what it is. But if you know anybody with autism, as most people say, you know one person with autism, but then you see, you think of that and you're like, why do, but that's like any human being.

If you know one human being, you know, one human being, because we're all different. So then I just think back, I think why do, why do you even have to say if you know one person with autism, you know, one person with autism, because they're on a spectrum. We're all on a spectrum. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah, yeah. You know, 

Dan Watt: life is a spectrum.

Tim Villegas: Yeah, yeah. You 

Dan Watt: know? 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. She's, I know, right? Um. Your professors and 

Dan Watt: teachers are gonna be like, what is this guy talking about? 

Tim Villegas: No, no. This is, I I think this is a great conversation and I think whoever's listening will immediately, he like, understand and see the connection between, you know, um, the idea is that you're talking about, um, as a, as a, you know, a dance teacher and um, and in this film and.

I think it definitely applies to just educators in general. So I think this is a great conversation. Um, I do want to, I do want you to share, um, how anyone can watch the film. And then, um, you teased a little bit about a, a future project. So why don't you tell us about those, the two things. 

Dan Watt: Well, this is actually currently free on Prime Video and Tubi.

We got Amazon Prime to offer it for free during, uh, disability awareness month. And the response was great. So I would suggest all your listeners go there and watch it and then leave a comment because they, they, if they get enough, if the. Numbers keep up. They will keep offering it for free. And I just think that that's a great, a great thing.

Don't just click the like button. You have to go leave a comment because I talked to somebody that works there and they judge it on how many people take the time to write something, not just click the like, 

Tim Villegas: okay. 

Dan Watt: Good to know. That's wonderful. Good to know. And so it's, it's free on Prime Video, Amazon Prime and Tubi.

And you can pay for it on Apple TV and Google Play. But why? When you can get it for free

and because of my Emmy win. I guess that, do you know who Rosie O'Donnell is? She used to have her, yeah. The TV show community. Well, her child Clay has autism. Hmm. And she reached out to me because she had an idea for a film. So we started discussions and I filmed one day already, and I think that's all I'll say.

Well, 

Tim Villegas: it's gonna be a, another documentary. 

Dan Watt: Yeah. And this is strictly gonna be about autism 'cause Clay has au autism, but it's about, I, I guess I can say it, there's on YouTube, there's t, there's. Shows that are object shows. They're called object shows and one of them is called Battle for Dream Island. And it's like a sponge talking to a pen.

It's, it's normal things that people you have around your house and then the, the pen talks to the balloon and the, you know, the cup, all that stuff. So it's everyday objects that have been created into characters. 

Okay. Well. 

Dan Watt: There's a few there. I think there's three of 'em. So, but I'm gonna talk about Battle Forward Dream Island only.

We're interviewing all of them and the kids who watch this show, these kids started this show when they were 13 and they're now in their twenties. Last year it blew up. Uh uh. Their last video got 85 million views. Wow. The autism community. For some reason has now embraced these shows and there are chat rooms and community rooms on Twitter and Facebook, all because of these shows.

So, and Rosie's Child Clay, I. When they found the show, it changed her life and it changed her behavior in her everyday school. And she started taking, uh, they started taking drawing classes. And I've interviewed a girl, uh, who now is creating their own show, and she's working on different cartoon voices and voicing characters.

So she's getting into voiceover work and it's just how, uh, they, they had a, their con. A, a convention this past summer, and Rosie took Clay and Rosie said a third of the audience. Was on the autism spectrum and she said, there's gotta be something there. Let's figure wow. Interest. I've never heard of this.

And now, well, either you've heard of it or you haven't. Well, 'cause it is, it's like this underground little world. But now I'm going, the last Monday, this month, I'm gonna go to a convention for one of the other ones, you know, with Rosie to, to see the, the craziness. But for. I've talked to a few psychologists and read a few papers and, and, uh, professors and stuff like that and what, what we think is going on.

But again, I wanna talk to the kids about it. So maybe if there somebody in your audience, if they have a child that knows what this show is. Is that here's a sponge that gets hit by a rock, and they both have personalities. Well, the sponge, because it's an animated show, says Ouch, and makes an ouch face.

And then the rock, the rock character laughs at it. Well then two minutes later, the rock comes over and apologizes for the to the sponge. I didn't mean to hurt you, so it's. Kids on the spectrum. Don't have to think like when you talk to, when, well, this is what I've been told. When you, when you want to get specific answers and have a conversation, it, it, it, sometimes it's harder for someone on the spectrum when you all ask a big generic questions, how is your day?

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Because it's too, it, it can go in too many directions. 

Sure. 

Dan Watt: So it, the object show the. The sponge said, ouch. Made an ouch face and started to cry. It's all right there. You, you don't have to think about it. Everything I need to know is right there. And then the other character come over and apologizes, it's all right there.

I don't need to think anymore about it. 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Dan Watt: So they think that, uh, or the people that I've talked to, the professors and psychologists think that it could just be because it just makes it. That it's, it's that defined, you know? Yeah. They don't, they don't have to open up nine folders and then get frustrated, you know, in their heads to figure out what.

What did the human that said to me, what did they mean? 

Tim Villegas: You know? Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Well, I will definitely check out Battle for Dream Island and, um, you're gonna watch it and go, what am I looking at? And if, and then maybe, yeah, if you, um, if you're listening and you're like, I know exactly what battle for Dream Island is, then, you know, send me an email and then give him my number or message on social media or, yeah.

Or, and then, uh, we can give it to the email. 

Dan Watt: Yeah, I'm, yeah. Dancing Dan w on Instagram. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Um, but it was 

Dan Watt: so cool that she, that she wanted to continue exploring and, um, expo, I, I don't wanna use the word exposing, offering films and stuff like that to get, uh, that feature kids.

Yeah. With disabilities. But in this one, and, and again, telling their stories, this is going to, this is focusing on autism, but what, how cool is it that this YouTube show, I met one boy who now is painting replicas of Picassos. Monet, the kid is 14, but he watched this show, started drawing the characters, then asked for colored pencils, and then went to watercolors and then got bored doing that because it was too easy that his parents went out and bought thank you cards that had all the, you know, the lily pad from, you know, Monet and all that stuff.

And now he's painting those. Wow. And you just, but look at how this show opened up the mind and a pathway to creativity that this, this kid is now flourishing in and that, you know, and Rosie's like, we gotta tell people about this. Not that this particular show is going to attract everyone. You know, it's like anything.

I'm still a Law and Order fan, you know, law and Order, SVU, you know.

Tim Villegas: Oh man. Oh well. This is great. This is wonderful. Thank you for, um, spending some time with us. Um, do you have time for a mystery question? Do you know what I'm talking about when I say mystery question? I. 

Dan Watt: No, it scares me. Okay, good, good. But I'll find out. No, it's just, okay. So, 

Tim Villegas: um, so how I wrap up, uh, each interview with my guests is I have a stack of cards, um Oh, okay.

Yeah. And, uh, it's just a prompt card and then I selected at random and then we both answered the question. So 

Dan Watt: does that 

Tim Villegas: sound okay? Here we go. 

Dan Watt: Do you have your bleep button close by? I 

Tim Villegas: do. I don't think we're gonna need it, but we'll see. Uh, okay, so this question is, would you travel to space if possible?

No. No, that's an easy question. Can I ask you why? Why wouldn't you wanna go to space? I don't care. I think there's a,

Dan Watt: I think there's, I, there's still so much on this earth that I would wanna experience. And I don't know if I could survive not having contact like this. 

Tim Villegas: Mm, okay. 

Dan Watt: Am am I able to, first of all, the other astronauts would be like, shut.

You know, I, I just could see myself trying to teach them ballet and space and I just would have these conversations and they'd be like, just leave me alone. Oh, oh my goodness. So I don't know if I could survive. I. In an atmosphere that didn't have personal one-on-one contact. 

Tim Villegas: Okay. Okay. That's fair. That's fair.

Um, I, I think I would like to travel the space, uh, or I would, if I given the opportunity, I don't know if I'd want to live in space. 

Dan Watt: Yeah. 

Tim Villegas: You know, like the people who say we're gonna colonize Mars or whatever, like, I don't know. Seems I've seen, uh, you know, I've seen The Martian. Okay. So, right. Yeah. I don't know about that.

Uh, and Interstellar, both of those terrify me. Right. So, um, but yeah, I think I, I, I enjoy learning about space. I enjoy like, like. Um, I enjoy looking at the stars. I enjoy the constellations. I, I, I enjoy all that stuff. Um, but yeah, I'd probably be different. You know, I'm also a big Dr. Who fan, so there's part of me Uhhuh that like, does want to like, get in the TARDIS and like go all, you know, go all the way around in different time, uh, you know.

Dan Watt: Right. 

Tim Villegas: Um. Well, I would 

Dan Watt: do like the last season of Dr. Who, where they just went to different eras. Yeah, exactly right. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. But again, there's 

Dan Watt: people there and to me, space is me in a capsule for eight months. Oh gosh. Without Law and Order, SVUI don't know if I could do it. 

Tim Villegas: Okay, so Space plus Law and Order.

SVU. Right. Then you're good. 

Right. 

Tim Villegas: Alright. All right, good. All right, well thanks for, uh, thanks for playing along. Dan Wa thank you so much for being on The Thinking Quiz Podcast. We really appreciate it. 

Dan Watt: I had a great conversation. Thanks for having me.

Tim Villegas: Right. Welcome back. That's a wrap for this episode of Think Inclusive. Let's roll the credits. Think Inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. I handle the writing, editing, design, mixing, and mastering. This podcast is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Our original music is by Miles Reich, with additional tunes from Melody, a big shout out to our sponsor, IXL.

Check them out at ixl.com/inclusive. We truly appreciate each and every one of you who tunes in. We'd love to hear how you're using our episodes. Are they part of your teaching toolkit? Do you share them with school administrators? Let me know. You can always reach out to me at tvillegas@mcie.org. That's T-V-I-L-L-E-G-A-S at M-C-I-E dot O-R-G.

And hey, if you're still with us this far into the episode, it probably means that you love, think inclusive in the work that MCIE is doing. Can I ask a small favor? Help us keep the momentum by donating at our website mcie.org. Just click the button at the top of the site and chip in 5, 10, 15, $20. It would mean the world to us and the children in the schools and districts we partner with.

Thanks for your time and attention. And remember, inclusion always works

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