Nicole Eredics wcap === Nicole Eredics: So for me it's about what do you already do in your classroom? And what barriers do you see for your students at this point? And if you have a student that is leaving for part of that instruction, is there a way to have the student stay? So like we're talking, start from the ground up, right? Looking at your student's schedule and seeing where in your instructional time the student can remain in your classroom. And of course, communicating with the staff that works with the student. When the student is not in your classroom, how can we as a team, have the student remain in the gen ed classroom for longer periods of time? What kinds of resources do you have that can help me support the student in my general education classroom? What are the possibilities for co-teaching? Can we spend more time working as a team, or do you have resources that can help me teach the student while they're in my general education classroom. Tim Villegas: Hi friends, it's Tim Villegas. This is Think Inclusive, and who you just heard was Nicole Eredics. Nicole is an expert in inclusive education with over 25 years of experience. She holds degrees in elementary and special education and began her career as an inclusion teacher in British Columbia, Canada. As the founder of the Inclusive class, she has implemented inclusive systems. In over 150 schools across the US since 2008. Her bestselling book, inclusion in action is a key resource for educators. Currently, she is a national presenter and trainer for the Bureau of Education and Research and an education and ed tech consultant. Nicole's international experience in engaging presentations. Empower educators to create inclusive learning environments. Thanks so much for being here with us today. We appreciate each and every one of you listening to or watching Think Inclusive MCIE's podcast that brings you conversations with people doing the work of inclusion in the real world. And while you're here, make sure to hit the follow or subscribe button wherever you are so you can keep getting think inclusive in your feed. In this episode of Think Inclusive, Nicole and I discuss her journey, the work she's doing with school districts to foster inclusive practices and the growing awareness of diversity and personalized instruction. Nicole shared insights on how technology, including AI are helping educators adapt lessons to meet diverse student needs, and the challenges posed by standardized testing and grading. She emphasized the critical role of administrators and benefits of co-teaching models. Nicole reminds us of the significant impact teachers have on their students' educational journey and encouraged educators to be a positive force in their students' lives. Before we get into my conversation with Nicole, I want to tell you about our sponsor for this season, IXL. IXL is a fantastic all in one platform designed for K 12 education. It helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers and tracks progress seamlessly. Imagine having a tool that simplifies what usually requires dozens of different resources. Well, that's IXL. As students practice, IXL adapts to their individual needs, ensuring they're both supported and challenged. Plus, each learner receives a personalized learning plan to effectively address any knowledge gaps. Interested in learning more? Visit ixl.com/inclusive. That's ixl.com/inclusive. All right, after a short break, we will get into my conversation with Eredics, catch you on the other side. I. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you have your, I You have your book back there. Nicole Eredics: I do. Do you show the video of the, Tim Villegas: do you It's video. Yeah. Nicole Eredics: Oh, okay. There we go. That's, that was not, that wasn't planned. Tim Villegas: That's pretty good. That's pretty good. I think we're gonna, you Nicole Eredics: product placement. Tim Villegas: I think we're gonna start with that. Uh, okay. Yeah. Uh, and Nicole Eredics, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast. Nicole Eredics: Thank you. And it's a pleasure to be here. Be here. Tim Villegas: Uh, Nicole was, I, I, we, we just met in real life, uh, last March. Yes. Oh, it was this march actually. Nicole Eredics: Yes. Yeah. Tim Villegas: In, in 2024 in San Antonio at the CEC conference. And this is the first time we were like in, in the same, uh, physical space. Nicole Eredics: Yes. Tim Villegas: Which is really cool. Nicole Eredics: Which had been like, it was 10 years or something. Over a, Tim Villegas: over a decade. Yeah, over a decade, for sure. And, um, you know, back in the day, uh, when I first started this podcast, you were my, you're my, you were my first official guest. Nicole Eredics: That's crazy, Tim Villegas: right? Nicole Eredics: Yes, that is. Yes, I was, Tim Villegas: yeah. That was fun. And I, I had been on, uh, your podcast, uh, the inclusive, uh, classroom. That's right. Yeah, Nicole Eredics: yeah, yeah. We did that podcast for a couple years. Wow. And I think you were on a couple times, actually. Tim Villegas: I think you're right. Yeah. One Nicole Eredics: of our repeats. You were on repeat. Tim Villegas: Yes. Um, and we've both gone on to do really cool things. Uh, you wrote Inclusion in Action, which is in your background. Um, and w. Uh, what, like, what else is going on? Because the, I know when we talked, you kind of filled me in on what, what's happening in your life. But I'd love to know if, uh, if people have not followed you, like what's going on, what's happening in your world? Nicole Eredics: Yeah, I know. Uh, lots of great, uh, opportunities really came out of. Just doing the podcast and connecting with people and, um, like yourself and other people who are, you know, advocating for inclusion. And so over the years as my network has really grown and through that, I've had an opportunity to connect with teachers and go to different parts of the country and see how. You know, what's happening with them and what inclusion is, um, like in their settings. So it's really most of my time now is spent working directly with school districts and organizations supporting their, uh, inclusive practice and, um. Outside of that, I'm enjoying the empty nest lifestyle. Tim Villegas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because both of your kids are off and, uh, well you have, I think, graduated college, right? Nicole Eredics: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Both of them, um, have graduated and are. Uh, yeah, very successful, both of them. And so it's, uh, they are not living at home anymore or even in the area, so I get to, to travel and see them. So, yeah, I'm busy, I guess you would say. I'm busy going all kinds of different places. Okay. And connecting with people. Tim Villegas: And so, um, and so what I'm hearing is that you're open for, you know, uh. You know, uh, being hired as a consultant, is that right? Nicole Eredics: Yeah, that's typically what happens is that people will, will reach out and, uh, you know, they have an issue that they're trying to solve or, uh, would like to know more about inclusion, so, mm-hmm. I will definitely and happily support them, uh, in that process. So it's really nice 'cause I feel like I get to have the boots on the ground type experience now. Yeah. As Nicole Eredics: in the earlier days it was more, um, just connecting via online or, you know, through blogging and Facebook and whatnot. But now it's free. More. Right. Tim Villegas: Do, do you do much blogging anymore? Um, I know, I think I'm still subscribed to your inclusive classroom blog. Yes. I, whenever you have an update, I get an email. Nicole Eredics: That's funny. I don't, I sadly, I don't, I, uh, I didn't know what happened. It just kind of. You work at something for a long time. Yeah, it's nice to take a little bit of a break from that and, uh, they hit the reset button. So it's still there though. I still get a lot of visitors, uh, coming to the blog and yeah, it's, it's interesting. I get a lot of comments still, which is nice to, to be able to see that engagement. Tim Villegas: Right. Yeah. Remember? Yeah. Remember when we put comments on blogs, right. Tim Villegas: I guess people can still do it. They do. Shockingly they do it. It Tim Villegas: really is. Yeah, it really is. I, yeah, I feel like my whole like, uh, relationship with social media and blogging has just gone through this complete like, yeah. Likes, it's just full circle, you know? Um. You know, when I first started it was, it was all about, you know, being a blogger and getting, you know, connecting with other bloggers mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And kind of supporting each other and, and going back and forth and, and, uh, like guest blogging and like, you know, yeah. Blog swaps and all this stuff. And now I'm going through the same thing with podcasting, like guest podcasting, promo swaps, um, connecting with other podcasters. It's like. It's like, it's just, it just goes around again. Nicole Eredics: Yep. Yeah, I mean, it was, yeah, it, it did a really good job of getting people connected initially. I think, you know, just kind of, uh, being able to, to meet with people that are really in so many different places and, and it has evolved. It's evolved to other different platforms and I see a lot of, uh, the newer, I wouldn't say newer, but I guess. You know, the gen, the up and coming generation of inclusion advocates are using other platforms like mm-hmm. Nicole Eredics: TikTok and Instagram, and. I haven't waited into those waters really yet. I'm still old school. Tim Villegas: Yeah, me too. Um, me too. The, the most that we do is, is we'll cut up video, um, clips, which you will probably be on eventually. I. You know. Okay. I, I cut, I, I cut of the podcast interview and then we post that to Instagram, but I don't do as much, like, you know, me talking to a camera type of thing. Nicole Eredics: Right, right. Tim Villegas: I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm not as comfortable with that, although I've gotten a lot better at that. Mm-hmm. Um, now that, now that this podcast is video, so, um. I would love to know, because since you're working with, uh, districts all around the country mm-hmm. Um, Tim Villegas: kind of like your general sense and where do you feel like the field of education has made growth? Uh, because, you know, you've, we, we've both been, been doing this for a long time, but you know, you've been in classrooms, you've been, um, in talk, talking to teachers. Uh, where have you, where have you seen the growth happen in, in the field? Nicole Eredics: That's a really good question. Uh, and honestly, I've seen a lot of positive growth over the last few years, uh, when just reflecting on the different schools that I've been to and the different teachers I've talked to, different grade ranges, what I've seen. The most is the awareness of diversity and awareness of individual student needs, and just that, uh, desire and need to personalize instruction for kids, right? Like, no, it's no longer that one size fits all. It never was, but that was what we, you know, 20 years ago, that was how you taught, right? Mm-hmm. And so. I'm seeing that slowly come to an end and I'm seeing more, especially even, and not just teachers, curriculum that's being used in the classroom now is designed to support different learners, whether it's through scaffolding or small group instruction or, um, you know, intervention. Like it's all, it's all becoming more. Part of just regular everyday instruction, which is wonderful. It's exactly what we needed, right? To be able to, to look at our students and see what their specific needs are and find ways to support that. So I definitely see a lot of growth in that area, and I, and it, and as a result, more, uh, awareness and. I, I don't wanna say acceptance, but more awareness and, uh, willingness to. Brings students of different ability levels into the classroom as well, and to engage them in our general education classroom. So, uh, yeah, and just a lot more resources overall, you know, with the explosion of all of the websites like teachers pay teachers, and all of those different, uh, websites and AI has just really created, uh, a large pool of resources for teachers to use. To support launch instruction? Tim Villegas: Yeah, I, I'm like specifically with resources. I feel like just in the last two to three years, there's been, uh, a, a greater number of books about inclusive education practices, like specifically helping schools and districts implement, um, these practices. And I've never, you know, when. When we both were starting blogging, right there, was it just, no, it wasn't the, the, the, it wasn't accessible, like the, the information was there. Um, yeah. So you really had to know where to look for it. Nicole Eredics: Totally. And even if some of today's resources or instructional materials or strategies are not specifically labeled inclusion or inclusive practice, they still facilitate inclusion, right? Like, again, going back to that scaffolding and going back to, um, the. Different ways of, like UDL for example, incorporating that into lesson planning. I'm more and more teachers are aware of Universal Design for Learning, which is an inclusive practice, right? Mm-hmm. So yeah, it, it, I feel like there's, there's been a significant growth in, uh, how teachers are. Working with students and what they're using to work with students that facilitates greater inclusion. Yeah. Overall. Tim Villegas: Mm-hmm. What about challenges? Are, are there any things that, that stick in your mind that's still things that are challenges? I, Nicole Eredics: yeah. I mean, we're still working within a very rigid system that believes in standardized testing and, uh, promotes certain. Student strengths and has a hard time recognizing other, you know, skills that students may have. Um, I think we're still challenged to get the technology into the classrooms. Even though we're come out of covid and students at access to technology, it's still a challenge to have that available. In classrooms and have access to the learning platforms that could be used. Uh, and I think too, just the whole grading system, going back to what we're working with, the rigid structured system that we're in, the grading often presents a problem, especially when we're talking about inclusion at the high school level. You know how schools are adapting their grading programs and systems to support students who are on modified programs or, you know, receiving individual education that might not be I. You know, what we would typically have in a high school setting. So yeah, it, those are the kinds of challenges we still see, uh, or that I still see. And, uh, just supporting overall mental health is, is still a big issue too. So, but yeah, I'm encouraged, you know, I see, I see a lot of opportunity for. For growth. And I see a lot of awareness of what those challenges are. So it's not like they're oblivious to it. They want to know how to, to work with what they have. So, yeah. Yeah. It's inspiring. Tim Villegas: Yeah, that's a good point about the, you talked about grading and we, we had, uh, Thomas Guskey on, um, this was a. Last season, I believe, and he talked about standards based grading and how that it's something that I believe Canada uses. Am I saying that right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tim Villegas: Um, yeah. And, and so, um, and I, I asked him specifically about how that would relate to learners who have extensive support needs, especially in high school because of transcripts and stuff like that. Right. And, uh, he mentioned about. That, um, uh, I hope I'm getting this right. He, in, in the school that they were working with, um, they provided both sets of transcripts, so one with the letter grades and one with the standard based GR grading and mm-hmm. The, the families chose like the standard space because it provided better information. Nicole Eredics: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it outlines. The student's performance in relation to a specific learning outcome. Yeah. Right. Much. Nicole Eredics: Yeah. Much clearer. It's much more, Nicole Eredics: A lot more, definitely. Yeah. And so that's something that would be nice to be able to move towards Tim Villegas: and you know, and um, something else I heard you say is that. More and more educators want to have these changes and they, they want to, they want to, uh, provide an inclusive environment for their learners. They want to promote inclusive practices. So it's not like there's, there, there's definitely a pushback. I'm not saying that there isn't. Yes. Yeah. Um, but. When you have a conversation with, uh, an educator and, and, and explain like, um, like we were just, we were just having this conversation internally about some partners that we have, um, and. So when we are explaining, okay, so what we mean by inclusive education is that you have a class and you ha you only have the, like a natural proportion of the students with IEPs, um, in your classroom. It's not like. An inclusion class, quote unquote inclusion class where you have 50% of the learners have IEPs. We're, we're really talking about spreading those learners across the grade level and then supporting them where they are using the resources that you have. And, uh, just because a class has a learner with a disability doesn't mean a special education teacher has to be in that classroom a hundred percent of the time. Right. They can move around. Right? Yeah. And so. It was like no one had ever, well, I, I don't wanna make the assumption that no one's ever said that to them, but that seemed like new information to them. Nicole Eredics: Hmm. Tim Villegas: Right. That's Nicole Eredics: interesting. Yeah, yeah, Tim Villegas: yeah. Um, but, but it was more like, oh, wouldn't that be nice? Nicole Eredics: Oh, okay. Okay. Tim Villegas: And so, and so, uh, I think it's, it's more. Like I, I've always felt like we've had this kind of communication and messaging issue with, uh, inclusive education. It's like when we say inclusive education, people often think and hear something that we're not actually talking about. Nicole Eredics: I totally agree, but I think too, a lot of that lies in the message that, and the words and what we as inclusion advocates do and say, because I think a lot of times there is. Uh, this conversation about inclusion and what inclusion means and people Totally, yeah. They're on board with that. I mean, who doesn't want social equity and, uh, academic equity, like who, as educators, people are on board with that and, but what I think we still struggle to do is to give them the tools. To, and the explicit instruction on what that looks like in practice. Right. Um, and don't get me wrong, yeah. We still need to be talking about inclusion and raising awareness and promoting and advocating for inclusion, but we also need to be spending as much time and energy and giving them the tools to do that. And what that looks like specifically. 'cause you're right, some people, yeah, yeah. They're all about it. But. What does it look like? How do I do it? Like they might have that, you know, those preconceived notions, um, that are not so positive, right? And so that's where I really, that's why what I'm doing now, I feel is where I'm meant to be because I'm able to get into the classrooms, talk to the teachers, given those specific strategies. And once they realize that it's not a major overhaul of what they're already doing, but they have a few extra, uh, resources and strategies to rely upon, it's like, yeah, okay, we're gonna do this. So yeah. Tim Villegas: How much of your time, or maybe when, when you, when you are kind of, um. Assessing where a school is and even a school assessing kind of where they are on, on their road to inclusive practices. How much of it, um, is like universal tier one, like evidence-based instruction, like the, the, the base, like are you seeing really good tier one universal instruction, or are we. Is, is the, the, the lack of that kind of causing the, you know, more kids being referred to special education? Does, does that make sense? Nicole Eredics: Yeah, I, I think I understand what you're saying. Uh, and just in response to that first part of it, I do see, when I talk about the resources, the awareness, the, uh. Using UDL in the classroom, that is all tier one. Mm-hmm. That's Nicole Eredics: where I just, I do see growth and strength in that core instruction, uh, in terms of how teachers are addressing barriers that are classroom wide. Right. And are presenting materials so that the most amount of students can access it. Uh, in the classroom in that core instructional time. So. Mm-hmm. And that's, and again, going back to different types of curriculum and programs and all the different pieces that go into to instruction, that material too is also becoming a lot more, uh, I guess it's more tailored. To supporting students of different needs in the classroom. So, yeah, I, um, and then, you know, up from the, of course, when you get into the more specialized, uh, student instructional time, like the tier two and tier three, of course, that's, they're very well versed and, Nicole Eredics: uh, those, those strategies, specialized instruction and all those different. Um, strategies for students. So, and then of course, too, I'm seeing as a result, more co-teachers, right? Mm-hmm. That are supporting students who are receiving tier two and tier three instruction directly in a general education classroom with a class with a gen ed teacher. So that's been really interesting to watch as well, that growth. And yeah, I've really enjoyed that piece. Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. And, and hopefully Les talk about where the kids are on the tiers. That's often Oh yeah. Where we, yeah, where, where, where, when I'm talking, uh, to teachers, sometimes it's you, you know, tier one, tier two, tier three kids. Right. Instead of like the instruction or the intervention. Nicole Eredics: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, but I think as educators, we. I don't know. We sometimes gravitate towards labels just to kind of organize all the different pieces in our heads too, right? That's where our kids are at and what they're doing, and I just, it's again, using that inclusive language and promoting it and talking about it in addition to all of the other pieces of. Uh, talking about inclusive practice, it's comes back to the language too. Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. Um, what about your experience with like, um, the administrators and school leaders or district leaders? Um. Moving towards like inclusive systems or changing their systems to be more inclusive? Like, what have you observed as far as, um, that role, Nicole Eredics: uh, mix? Uh, I still see administrators maybe trying to make inclusion still fit into a specific system. A specific district process, right? Which as administrators, that's part of their job is to make sure that their school is following district protocol and all those. But it's, it, I still see, uh, and I also see administrators who. May not be as informed as classroom teachers on inclusive practice. So that's the other interesting piece for me to talk to some administrators and realize what their understanding of inclusion is and what it looks like. So, and that's, I'm not, you know, there's a lot of very supportive administrators and district personnel who, uh, are working really hard to change. The processes in the district, I, I definitely see a mix, uh, more so than with educators. There's more of a, you know, they're, they kind of know what they should be doing, but not really sure how it's gonna fit into what their district protocol is. Right. That, Nicole Eredics: I think that is probably the next frontier working with administrators and district personnel, because I think, you know, teachers, teachers in general, they. They're, they want to educate, they want to support student needs. Just often myths and misunderstandings and the lack of resources get in the way. Tim Villegas: Yeah. And I think we're Nicole Eredics: breaking down Tim Villegas: and, you know, depending on their situation too. Um, a lot of times there, uh, uh, when, when they're vocal about, well, this student can't. Or shouldn't be in my class. It's really about them not feeling like they can support them. Nicole Eredics: Exactly. Tim Villegas: Right. So it's like there is a certain level in like kind of just baked in ableism that we have in, in our school system just because of the way that it's set up, but mm-hmm. Um, the teachers are mostly. Like expressing frustration that they're not able to support the learner. Um, and so the logic, the logically for them, it's like, well, they probably can be supported somewhere else. Right? So, you know, I can't do it, but maybe somebody else can. The kind of, the fallacy of that is though. That they, they won't be supported there either, Nicole Eredics: right? Yes. Have you seen the classrooms? Yeah. Wow. I know, and it just, I always, I was talking to a friend yesterday and she was, uh, her kids are school age and so she is kind of relating more to inclusion and what that means and the work I'm doing and. And she was asking about the difference between special education and general education classrooms, and she was kind of commenting on, she's observed in terms of special education as a parent going into the classroom and volunteering and just the wide range of abilities, all the different, you know, the different needs and the, just even the bodies in that classroom, the adults versus the kids. And it's just a, a real mix. And so she was commenting on how that would impact. Uh, student learning, so Yeah. I, I agree. Yeah. It's, um, teachers, gen ed teachers just are, again, back to that just for, I don't think that they don't, it's not that they don't want to do it, I think that they just don't really know how and what that looks like. Tim Villegas: Yeah. In practice. Yeah. Yeah. And, and uh, going back to what you were saying about like, uh, what special education classrooms actually look like. Um, if there is a space where another child can go, then, then people will send them there. Yikes. Right, right. So, right. Um, Nicole Eredics: yeah. So that is right. You need to eliminate that. Tim Villegas: Right. So that's kind of the problem. And you know, and we've been talking about this for a long time. Um, yeah. But when you have special education classrooms, especially when they're tied to a program, like a regional program or community program, or this is the, this is our autism program and everyone that has this mm-hmm. Diagnosis, um. Can be supported here. Well then that takes the, it takes the pressure off of general education teachers to provide that support. Right? Yeah, completely. When they really should. Completely, you know, I mean we, we need to support general ed teachers to support learners on the autism spectrum. But when you have a program, it's like, well, why wouldn't they go to the program? Nicole Eredics: Right. And I can completely attest to that. Uh, when I was teaching. And, um, the school district that I was most recently in, uh, and it was fully inclusive at the time. It is still is. There was no, we didn't have those programs. We didn't have a special education program. Right. So when you are working with a student in your classroom, you aren't thinking about, oh, I've gotta get them out of here. They've gotta leave. They can't be part of my class. I can't work with a student. It, it was non-negotiable because it just didn't, that program didn't exist. So what ends up happening is that you end up bringing together your team, right? Your, your, we call a resource teacher or learning support teacher who is got that special education background administrator, um, other teachers in that grade level. And you bring them together and you start to problem solve, right? And you start to figure out how are we gonna make this work for this student? Because you don't have that option. I. Of, I mean, in highly specialized circumstances there were programs that, that were highly specialized and, and it took a lot for a student to move from the gen ed classroom into that specific program and didn't happen often, so it was just, that was off the table. But yeah, when you don't have those classrooms that exist for students to go to, then you, and you know, you. You make it work, you Tim Villegas: right. Nicole Eredics: Work with your, with your team and your resources to, to make it happen. So, yeah. Yeah, that's definitely having that option. Definitely. Uh, doesn't do inclusion justice in sense. Tim Villegas: No, no. And then you have, um, um. I, uh, I don't wanna give the impression like we're, I'm like, I'm trying to bash schools or like teachers or administrators. I think this is just kind of like the reality of the situation. Yeah. So I just wanna name, I just wanna name that reality because this is like what, where, where people are at, you know? Yeah. And so if you're listening to this and you're going like, um. You know, but like, what else am I supposed to do, Tim? Like, I, I totally get it. Right, right. I get it. Uh, and, and I've, and I've been there, um, and you know, we've observed this. Um, but I just wanna name that, you know, especially in the larger school districts, uh, that they typically have like an abundance of programs. Right. So you have a very large district, and when you have a large district, that's, that means there's more money and the more money that your district has, it feels like they put that into programs. Uh, and so you have all these different kinds of programs and autism program and ID and intellectual disability program, a behavior program. And so now there's these menu, it's a menu of options that like mm-hmm. We're gonna serve everyone, you know, and however they, they need, but when you have so many options, right. Um, yeah. You and you tend to over, over program, um, right. When you're not actually meeting the needs of the learner. You're just kind of trying to group people so that it's, you know, that you can serve learners efficiently, but that doesn't, it doesn't seem to work out that way. Nicole Eredics: No. On surface, that appeals like you're relieving that pressure on that you, the, the general education classrooms and you're relieving the pressure of supporting students with specialized needs. But in the end, like what? Like what's its purpose, right? What's. What's it really doing for kids? And they're, they're unique circumstances where kids do need some type of specialized support, but it's not meant to be a place where they spend all of their time for each. It's, it's a place to be, uh, used carefully and selectively. So, yeah, no, I, I. That over programming. You've seen that so many times. Yeah. Tim Villegas: Yeah, yeah. Um, so I guess if you're feeling like this is, uh, describing where you are, um, I'm wondering if we could talk, um, and kind of just wrap up our conversation about, um, maybe. Some, some solutions, like what can people do, right? What can people do to move inclusive education forward wherever they are? Whether if they're in a, you know, a district that's not inclusive or, um, maybe not as inclusive as you'd want, uh, and just maybe some words for the, for the future. Nicole Eredics: Oh, so are we talking about parents? Are we talking about community? I Tim Villegas: would say so that's, so that's a great question. Um, I think for the people that listen to this. Podcast, I'm really talking about educators in school districts, but there's a lot of crossover between educators and parents, uh, of that, that have children with disabilities. Um, so I think maybe let's first talk to educators in, in school systems. Nicole Eredics: So for me it's about what do you already do in your classroom? And what can you, what barriers do you see for your students at this point, and what can you do to create greater access to the instruction that you're teaching? And if you have a student that is leaving for part of that instruction, is there a way to have the student. Stay for some of that instruction. Right? So like we're talking like grassroots. Mm-hmm. Basic. Let's just start from the ground up, right? And looking at that student's schedule, looking at your student's schedule and seeing where in your instructional time the student can remain in your classroom. And of course. Uh, co you know, communicating with the staff that works with a student. When the student is not in your classroom. How can we as a team, have the student remain in the gen ed classroom for longer periods of time? Like, what can we do? What kinds of resources do you have that can help me support the student in my general education classroom? Right. Uh, what are the possibilities for co-teaching? Can we spend more time working as a team? Um, or do you have resources that can help me teach the student while they're in my general education classroom? So we're just talking like bare bones there, right? Yeah. Um, and I, and AI has been a huge game changer for that. I, that's my, my big thing right now is, you know, just going on to. Chat, GPT and asking chat GPT to make your lesson, a lesson that will include a student with specific needs and will create. Uh Tim Villegas: oh. So, okay. So what you're saying is that to actually give chat CPT the prompt of like, here's a lesson I have a student with, you know. Hugh has these particular needs. Yes. We'll do it. And I want you to, I want you to adapt this lesson so that they are included or something like that, right? Nicole Eredics: Yeah. Yep. You can give it, you know, I have a student with a DHD, I have a student who has an intellectual disability and is working at a grade two level. I have a student who, um, you know, has dysgraphia. How can this lesson be adapted to meet those students' needs and included that student in instruction? And it will, it will reply with a lesson that is broken down in different ways that you can. A adapt lesson for the students. So it's right there and it's, it's readily available. So accessing and, and even co-teaching, uh, using it, for example, how can a co-teacher and I present this lesson to my class, meeting the needs of these individual students and it will. Give back a model, a co-teaching model, resources and ways to instruct the different, uh, you know, the different groups in your class that are in that, working within that co-teaching model. It's right there. So, um, Tim Villegas: wow. Wow. Yeah. Uh, I see, I have heard of, of teachers using. AI to help like modify a particular, a lesson assignment assignment or whatever. Yeah. Or, yeah, yeah. But, um, what you're suggesting is taking it like a step farther, which I, I think it's really fascinating. Yeah. Nicole Eredics: Yeah. It totally is. I mean, of course there's, as with any technology and ai, there's room for error. I'm Nicole Eredics: telling you, if it can give you a framework or a basis to start from. That's half the battle, right? It's like how? I just need an idea. I just need to know how to set this up. It will group your students according to their different needs in the classroom. It will like it. Honestly, it's all about the prompts. Tim Villegas: It really is. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. I I feel like I need you all other, I need a a cl Yeah. I need a class. Yeah. To the, to teach me to do, uh, chat. New doesn't it blow. Nicole Eredics: Doesn't blow your mind though, like what it can do. It does. Yeah. Tim Villegas: Yeah, it does. You know who something? Um, I was gonna say, uh, Charmaine Thaner. Yeah, yeah. Is a love her is an advocate. Um, yes. In Idaho. She has a great, uh, uh, show called The Art of Advocacy on Facebook. And Nicole Eredics: yep, Tim Villegas: she talks about using AI for like advocacy. So same Yeah. Kinds of things. Using prompts to help parents, um, yeah. You know, pursue inclusive education for their child using ai. And, uh, um, I, I was like, what a, what a amazing use of this technology. Nicole Eredics: Yeah. No, it's fascinating. You could even upload a photo of your lesson plan and chat. GPT will read that lesson, plan off of your photo and modify it according to your prompts. Like, it's just, you can, and it will create templates for you. And I mean, it's just, and the, the options are, and it's just growing like exponentially. Yeah. Just the, the growth in it. Yeah. So having classroom teachers just be aware of that too, itself. Yeah, Tim Villegas: absolutely. Nicole Eredics: It's a big game changer. Tim Villegas: That's great. So Nicole Eredics: that, and that's part of what I've been doing most recently is working with co-teachers and using, um. Having them use AI to support their co-teaching. So that's been fun having, um, just, you know, engaging them in that process and then having them see how, wow, this is just, I. It's right here. Yeah. You know, the information is right here. So, yeah, it's been fun. Tim Villegas: That's great. I love, so thank you for sharing that. And I, I hope that gives people some ideas and, and hope for the future as we, as we all are trying to figure out how to best support learners, um, and inclusive classrooms and schools. Um, any final thoughts before, uh, before we go to our last segment? Um, I. That anything that you think teachers need to hear as we are headed into 2025? Nicole Eredics: Just remember your impact, you know, whether it's, uh, providing accessible curriculum or promoting social emotional wellness in your classroom. You know, it really, students look to you, right, for, uh. Uh, ways in which they can interact and engage with others and learn. And I think that you play a big role in setting the tone for your students educational journey. And just, yeah, that, that, just remembering that you do have a significant role in how they are, uh. How they, what their school experiences. So yeah, remaining, remaining that steady, positive influence, I think is, is key. And other students see that too and see how you engage with, with, uh, various students in your classroom. And so they, they emulate that too naturally. Tim Villegas: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for that. I appreciate that. Um, are you, are you up for a mystery question? Nicole Eredics: Oh my goodness. You know, do Tim Villegas: when I say, do you, do you know what I'm talking about? Nicole Eredics: No, I don't. Tim Villegas: Okay. So, oh, this is, um, no. No. Nicole Eredics: Okay. Tim Villegas: Uh, uh, this is a, the, the, uh, something I started doing last season. Uh, the, for the last question of the. The episode, I will, I have a stack of prompt cards and Oh, okay. I pull up a prompt a question and we both answer the question. Okay. So it, it's either usually pretty, um, light, sometimes they get a little deep, but we'll see. We'll see what happens. Okay. All right, here we go. Have you been, have you ever been kicked out of anything? If so, what? Let's see if I can get that on the, let's see the camera. Can I get it on the camera? The blurry, hold on, hold on. There we go. Oh, there we go. Have you ever been kicked out of anything? If so, what? Have you ever been kicked out of anything? Oh my gosh. Nicole Eredics: I was just talking about this the other day actually. Oh, okay. I was reading a story. I do have a story. All right. I'm ready. Nicole Eredics: I've been kicked out of a campsite. Okay. In the middle of the night when we were camping. Yes. Years ago. It's just so random, but we decided we would go camping for the weekend. And we went with some friends and we got all set up, you know what it's like to go camping, all the gear you gotta pack up and everything that's, you know, go buy food and all that kind of stuff. And then we got to the campsite and we got set up and got all of our gear out and we were younger so we were enjoying our evening. And Nicole Eredics: uh, one of our. One of our friends, um, decided to take it upon himself to, to go and make sure that everybody in the campsite was, was having a good time and safe. So they wandered off and got up to no good, I'm assuming, because he was brought back and we were told to take him home, which meant that we had to pack up. So we packed up our can site at midnight and much to our, uh. Disappointment and had to take our friend back home. So yes, that was, that was not fun. But we look back on it now, we laugh, right? But just the whole idea of getting set up and then our weekend was ruined and Tim Villegas: Oh no. I know. Oh gosh. It was the whole Nicole Eredics: thing. Tim Villegas: So, oh, that's a great story. What have you been, and I, I, go ahead. Nicole Eredics: What have you been kicked out of? Tim Villegas: I, well, that's the thing, is I, I honestly cannot remember. A time that I've been kicked out of anything. I, I feel like there, there are times where I should have been kicked out of places. Yeah. I'm just remembering like, uh, well I used to go to a lot of, um, like rock and roll shows, like punk rock shows and so I feel like, you know, probably could have. Probably could have been kicked out of places for being, you know, I don't know, obnoxious or too, or like enjoying yourself, you know, Mo Well, you know, like, yeah. Like, um, mosh, you know, doing a mosh bed or whatever. Oh, Nicole Eredics: mosh pair war. Yeah. Tim Villegas: Uh, yeah. And that would be ob obnoxious. We should have been kicked out of movie theaters because I definitely had. Sneak. I definitely s snuck into movie theaters and then also Okay. Um, gone to, um, uh, like I was underage and went to like r r-rated films, uh, back in my younger days. Nicole Eredics: Yeah. Tim Villegas: Uh, but never got caught. See, so Nicole Eredics: see, you're lucky. Tim Villegas: Apparently, I cannot think of a time where I've, I've been kicked out of anything, but, um, I. Maybe. Maybe it just hasn't happened yet. Nicole Eredics: Right? There's still plenty of time. Tim Villegas: There's still time for me to get kicked out of something and so, and then you Nicole Eredics: have to let me know what it was. Tim Villegas: I'll do an update. I'll do an update because that's Nicole Eredics: exactly, see, I feel like I alert my lesson back then and I was like, oh, first of all, be careful who you go camping with. Yes. Number one, who you Nicole Eredics: associate with. Tim Villegas: Oh my goodness. Yes. Yes. Don't, Nicole Eredics: don't, don't go camping with friends that are Tim Villegas: Nope. Yeah, it's not worth it. They, uh, Nicole Eredics: are gonna get you kicked out anyway, hasn't since. Well, thanks for Tim Villegas: sharing. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate you playing along. Nicole Aex, thank you so much for being on the Think Zoo podcast. Um, we appreciate it. Nicole Eredics: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. It was wonderful. Great talking to you. Tim Villegas: That's all the time we have for this episode of Think Inclusive. Now, let's roll the credits. Think Inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. I handle the writing, editing, design, mixing, and mastering. This podcast is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Our original music is by Miles Kredich, with additional tunes from melod.ie. A big shout out to our sponsor, IXL. Check them out at ixl.com/inclusive. We truly appreciate each and every one of you who tunes in. We'd love to hear how you are using these episodes. Are they part of your teaching toolkit? Are you sharing them with school administrators? Drop me a line at tvillegas@mcie.org and let me know. And hey, if you're still around with us this far into the episode. It probably means that you love, think inclusive and the work MCIE is doing. Can I ask a small favor? Help us keep the momentum going by donating at our website mcie.org. Just click the button at the top of the site and chip in $5, $10, $15, $20. It would mean the world to us. And the children in the schools and districts we partner with. Thanks again for your time and attention. And remember, inclusion always works from MCIE.