Jani Kozlowski Master
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Jani Kozlowski: having your child as a preschooler go off to school is emotional and scary, regardless. If your child has a disability or without a disability, it's, there's, it's a charged kind of feeling for the first time.

And so it's understandable when they, when they learn, oh, I could have a, a smaller classroom, or, you know, these kinds of services provided in a specific place. I can see how that might be tempting. But after your child goes into school. They will continue to be segregated. It's so much more easy to continue inclusion than it is to go from segregated back to inclusion.

and that's sort of the flip side inclusion sets the trajectory. But we also know from so many people working in systems that once they have been labeled and identified to be in the segregated placement. That continues on. And so I think it's really important that as families we approach, this vision that we have for our child in, a long range view.

Hi friends. I'm Tim Villegas. This is Think Inclusive. Who you just heard was Jan Kozlowski, a passionate, early childhood professional of over 30 years. Author, speaker, technical assistance specialist and consultant focused on supporting each and every child and family during the most critical period of development.

Jani provides professional development and technical assistance for state leaders. Educators and other practitioners around topics such as early childhood disability services, supporting learning environments, infant toddler development, collaborative partnerships, 

Social emotional development, quality improvement initiatives, and workforce professional development systems. She currently leads initiatives focused on early childhood disability services at the Frank Porter Graham Child Development Institute at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. Jani is the author of Every Child Can Fly, an Early Childhood Educators Guide to Inclusion and Companion Guide for Families 

Empowering Your Child to Fly a Family's Guide to Early Childhood Inclusion. Thanks so much. For being here with us today, we appreciate each and every one of you for listening to or watching.

Think Inclusive. MCIE's podcast that brings you conversations with people doing the work of inclusion in the real world. And while you are here, make sure to hit the follow or subscribe button wherever you are so you can keep getting Think inclusive in your feed. 

In this episode of Think Inclusive, Jani and I discuss the challenges and strategies related to advocating for inclusive education for young children with disabilities. Jani shares her experiences emphasizing the importance of early childhood inclusion and the long-term impact it has on a child's educational trajectory.

She talks about her books Every Child Can Fly And Empowering Your Child to Fly and the adaptation she made to make the information accessible to families. Janni elaborates on strategies for parents to advocate for inclusion. I. The significance of building strong relationships between families and educators and the importance of having a vision for a child's inclusive education.

She also highlights useful resources like parental centers and legal assistance available through organizations such as cadre. And concludes by sharing personal anecdotes and underscoring the value of cooperation and mutual support between families and educators to foster an inclusive learning environment.

Before we get into my conversation with Jani, I want to tell you about our sponsor for this season IXL. IXL is a fantastic all-in-one platform designed for K 12 education. It helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress seamlessly. Imagine having a tool that simplifies what usually requires dozens of different resources well.

IXL. As students practice, IXL adapts to their individual needs, ensuring they're both supported and challenged. Plus, each learner receives a personalized learning plan to effectively address any knowledge gaps. Interested in learning more, visit ixl.com/inclusive. That's ixl.com/inclusive. Alright, after a short break, we'll get into my conversation with Jani Kozlowski, catch you on the other side.

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Tim Villegas: Jani Kozlowski, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast. 

Jani Kozlowski: Hi, Tim, great to be with you. 

Tim Villegas: Uh, it's, it's so wonderful to see you again. Um, what are you, what's going on? Like, what is going on in your world since you were last on? Think inclusive. 

Jani Kozlowski: Well, and thanks for having me back.

Um, it's wonderful to be with you and, um, to get to speak to your audience. I'm super excited and gosh, I think when we last spoke, I had just published my first book. Every Child Can Fly and I was, I've really been thrilled by the, um, response that I've gotten from the early childhood community. I. I developed a book study that I've delivered with groups in Montana and Oregon and Illinois.

Been doing some keynotes, so it was kind of a scary time at first to put out kind of a personal book since I had never shared about my own experiences in a public way about. You know, living with a disability and parenting a child with a disability. But the response was really incredible and super supportive and, um, it's just been really gratifying to be able to share what I've learned with, uh, other educators and leaders in childcare and Head Start and pre-K.

And I've really been inspired by the teachers that I've met as well. So I met fellow Inclusionists like us. Um, and then also some teachers that are new to the concept of inclusion and, um, they're, they were relieved to learn that they don't need some sort of magic pixie dust to be an educator for each and every child.

So I learned a lot through the whole thing. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. Um, the book is called The book that you wrote, uh, that we're gonna talk about today. Empowering Your Child to Fly. I've got a copy of it right here. Great. So thank you for, 

Jani Kozlowski: so that, that's the other thing that's happened since I last spoke to you is, um, I adapted it for families.

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Uh, and you talked to a lot of families, so in the book 

Jani Kozlowski: mm-hmm. 

Tim Villegas: Um, which is, uh, which is wonderful. You have a lot of quotes from families. So how many, um, how many families did you end up talking with, uh, for the book? I 

Jani Kozlowski: interviewed 15 families. Uh huh Um, one family that you are familiar with is, um, Hilda and Olivier Bernier.

Um, yeah, so that was really cool to be able to interview them and also some families that work with the OSEP parent centers. So, yeah, I, I knew that I didn't want it to just be my story, so I interviewed other families as well. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. Um, what puts you on the path to adapting the book? Was there a, a particular, um, thing that happened, or was this always in your mind?

Jani Kozlowski: It was definitely a thing that happened. Okay. Um, I, you know, I wrote Every Child Can Fly for Educators and the point. Was really to try to demystify early intervention and early childhood special education and share the resource research base and the legal foundations around inclusion, give them practical strategies all for educators.

I didn't let my husband read it when I was writing the manuscript because. I wanted the stories to be true to my own personal parenting stories, so he didn't read it until it was published, and then he read it and his reaction was how helpful it would've been to us when we were in the thick of it.

Parenting our own child. And so he said, you know, why don't you think about adapting this for families because it would've been really helpful to us. Um, so that's what I did. And, um, yeah, and as I said, I, I interviewed 15 families and said their stories and their reflections our in the book as well as some pictures too.

So that's kind of cool. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah, the book is in full color, which is really nice. So if that's, uh, if that's enticing to you, it's uh, it's, it's beautifully laid out. Uh, and there's, uh, like you said, a lot of quotes and a lot of stories from families, um, specifically about families. 'cause you, you mentioned, um, your husband mentioned that this, this would've been a good resource, uh, for a family to, as they're on their journey for inclusion.

Um. Why do you think it's important for families to, you know, embrace inclusion, um, at the beginning 

Jani Kozlowski: mm-hmm. 

Tim Villegas: Of their journey? 

Jani Kozlowski: Yeah, so, and you know, I've, I've loved getting to know you, Tim, because you have the K 12 perspective on inclusion and you know, your role in, in K 12, and that's not my world. I'm, I'm an early childhood person, and so.

You know, my background is with Head Start and C Childcare, early intervention, early Childhood Special Education, and so I'm really kind of focused in on that lens of inclusion in early childhood specifically. And I think it's so important for families because inclusion really, or early childhood inclusion sets the trajectory for inclusion in elementary school and then middle school, high school, and life.

And it's easier to include a three-year-old, I think. Mm-hmm. Because everything about school is new to them, you know, and everything about school is new to the family as well. If, if, you know, if that's their first child. So there aren't established patterns and so we can kind of get it right from the start.

Um, and I think that this is really true because not only for the child with a disability and their family kind of. Starting out in an inclusive setting. And then, so that's the expectation. And as the child grows, that's just kind of what the family expects, what the child expects. Everyone's comfortable.

Uh, but it's also so important for children without disabilities because they are learning. You know, if, if you think about three and four year olds, they're learning about differences in general. That's the where they are developmentally. They're understanding differences in skin color, in cultural practices, and how our home life routines are different.

Um, all of the ways we differ from one another. And so at that age, young children are really open to the truth that we also differ from one another in the way we accomplish things in life. Some of us roll rather than walk or use assistive technology to communicate. Some of us need supports to calm our nervous system, uh, when we're around other people.

And so in early childhood, we're all, we're learning, all children are learning all of those things. And so. When children are segregated, while their brains are making sense of all that, we're just doing a disservice not only to children with disabilities, but children without disabilities too, because they're not, children without disabilities aren't learning a true picture of the world.

So, um, I love inclusion, but particularly in early childhood, it's so important because it gives children the full exposure to the range of what it means to be a human being. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. Um. As you were talking, I, I'm, I'm thinking about some specific, um, um, scenarios where 

Jani Kozlowski: mm-hmm 

Tim Villegas: you have a family, uh, who lives in a school district, uh, and the services that are provided for their child with a disability.

Um. You know, in, in preschool, uh, there, there's no option for an inclusive setting. So what is told to the family is. Your child will be cared for. Your child will have a small, um, group in their classroom. You'll have highly trained staff and will take really good care of your child with a disability who is, you know, um, in, in that, in that pre-K range.

Um, and we're going to, we're gonna provide all the services that you're. Your, uh, child needs, and that family hears that and feels really good about the place that their child is going. And so if they feel like a, there's a different path, uh, but it's just not available.

that family feels really good about the decision to, um, have their child go to this like segregated, self-contained classroom that has maybe 10 kids. Um, and maybe that child makes progress, right? Um, because of there's a lot of different variables.

Um, why should that family. Think that there's something better or to advocate for something better. Um, 'cause I, I feel like that's where families are sometimes. They just don't know what they don't know, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, what advice would you give to those families who are really at the beginning of this journey?

Jani Kozlowski: Yeah, yeah. And making a decision to advocate for inclusion for their child. I think it's, it's such a good question. 

It is so easy to understand how a family would feel that way because having your child as a preschooler go off to school is emotional and scary, and you know, there's all kinds of things that come up from that, regardless. If your child has a disability or without a disability, it's, there's, it's a charged kind of feeling for the first time.

And so it's understandable when they, when they learn, oh, I could have a, a smaller classroom, or, you know, these kinds of services provided in a specific place. I can see how that might be tempting. But the thing is that after your child goes into school. They will continue to be segregated. It's so much more easy to continue inclusion than it is to go from segregated back to inclusion.

Um, it just, you know, and that's sort of like the flip side of inclusion sets the trajectory. But we also know from so many people working in systems that once they have been labeled and identified to be in the segregated placement. That kind of continues on and continues on. And so I think it's really important that, you know that as families we approach, um, this vision that we have for our chi child in, uh, a long range view.

And I don't think anyone. Start with a, with a 4-year-old starting out, would want to see their child segregated. You know, they, we have dreams for our child and it typically isn't to be in a segregated placement. So I, I think that's one way to think of it as well. I think the other thing is that special education is a service.

It's not a place, and it really is about where can the child be most successful. In the place where they would be if they didn't have a disability. You know, and typically that's childcare or Head Start or, um, pre-K and, and some other, you know, state funded pre-K for example. And it's just what are the services that are necessary so that my child can be successful in that place, where they would be if they didn't have disability.

Um. So I, I can certainly understand how parents might have some anxiety about it, but I know for me, uh, with my own son, it was really important to me that he, um, be treated, you know, that he being a place where he would be if he didn't have a disability, um. Yeah, you don't live in a segregated world. You know, we, um, fortunately we live in, in an inclusive world, there aren't separate grocery stores, there aren't separate restaurants for people with disabilities.

Um, so it's really unfair for children to have that kind of expectation and then get out into the world. Um. In an inclusive world, so 

Tim Villegas: yeah. Yeah. It really does 

Jani Kozlowski: help right from the start. 

Tim Villegas: It does. It does. Yeah. I've been reflecting on this, um, just the, you know, for inclusionists, for people like you and me who, um, use the language of segregation.

Right. It, we, we use it because we know that. It sends a message, right? School districts aren't calling their special education classrooms, segregated classrooms. 

Jani Kozlowski: It's self-contained. Yes, 

Tim Villegas: they're self-contained or their special education classes or something like that. Um, we use it because we know that that's is it's, that is what is actually happening.

Um, and so I think for families, I. They are, they're in a spot where they're receiving information, um, that's messaged and framed in a way that is enticing or that makes them feel really good about this particular option. Or, you know, choice is maybe some people would, would frame it. So, um, but I think it's important for people.

Uh, if, uh, especially in this conversation to really call it what it is. Um, and that is a, an actual segregated placement. And like what you said, if you are segregated early, it really determines your trajectory. Trajectory. Um, it. It more often than not, uh, way more often than not, if you were in a segregated placement in, in preschool, you'll, you'll be in one in kindergarten and so on and so on and so on.

So, um, and, um, and that also too, um, was just at Walmart. Jani. So this is like, again, I'm sorry, I'm going on a tangent here, but I That's okay. Uh, so I was just at Walmart and I was picking up something and I'm on my way out and there was a sign and the sign said on Friday mornings between eight and 10, we, uh, there are sensory friendly hours, right?

And I was thinking, now wait a minute. We always say that there aren't like, special education grocery stores or like, you know, um. Uh, stuff like that. And I, so I really had to think about this. And so kind of where I landed was that, um, having an inclusive world means that sometimes you are going to provide accommodations.

I. Um, like sensory friendly, uh, theaters or sensory friendly shopping hours or sensory friendly, um, you know, kits at like amusement parks or whatever like that. But, um, it's all a matter of providing options and choices for families. Uh, in individuals who may want to use those opportunities, but in no way do we have said, okay, well you're disabled, so therefore you have to go.

Jani Kozlowski: Right. You have disabled to the grocery store during this time period. Yes. Yes, exactly. 

Tim Villegas: And I think that's the difference. And so I just wanted to process, process that with you because, um. You know, uh, some someone may be listening and thinking about, yeah, you're like, well, wait a minute. They, they have, they have these quote unquote special times or special places and, and stuff like that.

And I don't think either of us are saying those are bad things. I just think that, you know, when we are not actually providing choice, uh, and saying. Because of your disability, because of the characteristics of, of what, whatever it is that make you, you, you have to be in this particular spot to get quote unquote services.

I think that's kind of the issue. 

Jani Kozlowski: Yeah, I, I think that's a really good point. I, 

Tim Villegas: yeah. Yeah. Um, now for families who are. Um, a like that want to advocate for inclusion. Are there any strategies that you would recommend, um, uh, for, you know, advocating for inclusive school placements? 

Jani Kozlowski: Yes. Well, so the, in early childhood, again, these are families just starting out and I think one of the things that is gonna be super important in early childhood.

It's for families to understand the law, understand if, if they have an infant, infant or a toddler, then they will be served by early intervention. And Part C has different goals and different eligibility requirements. Then part B of IDEA for and, and preschool is different. So really becoming armed with, uh, knowledge about what their rights are.

What their child is entitled to receive. Uh, there are, for Part C, there are different eligibility requirements from state to state. Now, some of those policies are made at the state level, and as you said, you know, inclusion is, it's not consistent across our country. In fact, fewer than half of preschool aged children receive services in an inclusive early childhood setting.

And so. I, I, I think for families, the first thing is really coming to understand what their rights are and what the laws are, and what least restrictive environment looks like in early childhood. Um, because we don't have mandatory, um, childcare and head start in pre-K, you know, most it's mm-hmm. We start with, um, kindergarten in states and so it's going to be varied.

Um, but. That doesn't mean that least restrictive environment doesn't apply for, um, for preschoolers, it still applies. And so IDEA is very clear that when IEP teams make decisions about placement, they first need to consider, um, the place the child would be if they didn't have a disability, and how can we design services and supports that are gonna make that child successful there.

So I, I think that's kind of the first thing. And then the second thing that I think is super important for families as they're advocating for inclusion is to connect with other families. Mm-hmm. You know, they're, um, the Office of Special Education Programs has funded parent centers across the country.

Every state's required to have them. And if, um, if families go to parent center hub.org, they can look up where their parent center is in their state and who to connect with. And so there's, there's a way to connect with other families. Some of these programs have mentoring initiatives and they're all run by people that either, um, have a child currently.

In special ed or previously. And so there it's run by families. And so I think that would be really important. And then I think in terms of advocacy, gosh, don't you think the IEP meeting, that first IEP meeting is so critical. Um mm-hmm. And so understanding that IEP meetings are. Different from child to child, but by law certain topics are required to be covered.

And so if families can prepare for those meetings and think ahead of time how, um, you know, what their child's strengths are, um, what their concerns are about their child's development or education, um, and. What kind of services and supports they think would be most helpful. Uh, and the, and the questions to ask, you know, come, come ready to say, I need to know X, Y, or Z, or I really could use some resources about X, Y, or Z, or, how have other families managed this?

Um, because those, that meeting is where all of those kinds of decisions will be made and, and will come up. And I, I know for myself, I really wasn't prepared for that. And so that's why I really spend a lot of time in the book just thinking about all of the, the kind of information that will be discussed, the kinds of questions to ask and the kinds of things that as family member to be ready to share.

So, I don't know, what are your thoughts about the IEP meeting? Um, as a lever for Oh yeah. Yeah. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah, I think the IEP meeting is, is, is really important. And, um, I I think you touch on it in the book about having a vision, right? For inclusion. 

Jani Kozlowski: Yes. Mm-hmm. 

Tim Villegas: And, and, um, the IEP meetings that I were part of where the families were advocating for inclusion, that was one of the first things that they did.

Uh, even though I typically went to IEP meetings, that, that the, the children were older, um, a vision statement or having some sort of like. You know, overall, like this is where we're going, this is what we want, uh, for, for our child. That was really, really important. Um, because if the parents don't have a vision, often what is the default is what the, the team, like the, the school team, um, what their vision is, right?

So, um, so I think it's really important. What 

Jani Kozlowski: does the school team see? They see the disability, they don't see the full, you know, the full range of who your child is. Um, oftentimes we focus on the, the disability itself. Yeah, 

Tim Villegas: yeah, yeah. Um, so we, we've talked about, you know, some of the strategies that you'd recommend for parents, um, as they advocate.

What about, um. How parents could work with educators and specialists to, to support their child when they're in school. 

Jani Kozlowski: Mm-hmm. And I, I think this is another super important, um, ingredient, if not the most important ingredient Hmm. Are those relationships that we build, um, between educators and teachers or educators and families and.

You know, the, the research really backs us up on this, um, because the, um, every time a child starts a new class, there's a need to have a new relationship. And what we have learned from early childhood research. You know, we, we have a lot of research in early childhood about suspension and expulsion because you wouldn't think that there would be so much suspension and expulsion in for preschoolers, but there, there really is.

And, uh, Walter Gilliam from the Yale Child Study Center, I saw him speak one time and he made such an impression on me. He said they had never seen a case. Where a child was suspended or expelled when the family had a good relationship with the teacher, you'd never seen it. Wow. Mean that. I know. I know.

And so, um, that positive relationship is really gonna make or break it. Um, and it can be easy. It's not easy, especially when you think about inclusion, because we also know that, um. The biggest challenge to inclusion are the attitudes and beliefs that professionals hold, you know, and so it's a difficult thing to address, but I think it's also something that can really be, uh, worked on.

Um, and I try to give some strategies. I hear, heard that from so many families when writing the book as well of. Strategies they used, um, to support that relationship and. I always joke that my strategy was simple. It was compliments, presents and baked goods, volunteering. I like that. Yes, I tried to shm my way through many of the relationships, but, but that didn't always work.

Um. Can I tell you a quick story about this? Of 

Tim Villegas: course, yes. Its a podcast. You can tell as many stories as you'd like. 

Jani Kozlowski: Okay. So, um, my son Ricky was adopted at 17 months old, and so he was first 17 months he was in an orphanage in Ukraine. And um, this was many years ago. He's 2026 now, but so those first 17 months of his life, he.

He really didn't have, um, those kinds of experiences that he needed. The caregivers were really worried about, um, about having a epidemic or some kind of, um, public or some health situation, um, in the orphanage. And so they were very careful about. Keeping everything sanitary. And uh, and so I remember when we would go there, they had toys, but they were up on a high shelf.

So the children really didn't have access to toys. And so as a, when we, when we first brought Ricky home, we noticed that, you know, infants explore the world through all their senses. And so because he didn't have a chance to put things in his mouth because they were trying to keep everything sanitary, he really wanted to explore the world that way.

And at home. That wasn't such a big deal. You know? I mean, he could put toys in his mouth. I didn't have other children there that I needed to worry about, um, passing on germs. But when he got to preschool, it was an issue. And I came to school one day and his teacher. Said, Jenny, come over here. I wanna show you something.

And she took me over to a sink that was filled with soapy water and a bunch of toys, and she said, these are the toys that Ricky has put in his mouth just since noon. And I was so embarrassed. Um, I said, I'm gonna talk to him. We're gonna have a piece three, but we're gonna have a conversation about this.

And I didn't know what to do. Mm-hmm. And I felt like, okay, this is, you know, this is where he gets expelled. Um. Because of this. And so I called up a friend of mine who worked in early intervention and she said, well, Jenny, he just needs something that he can have with him all the time that he can, um, put in his mouth, you know, when he has that, um, need.

And so she said, why don't you get some of those teeth or beads and make a necklace? And then that way he can put that in his mouth. I was like, brilliant idea. So we made the necklace. He went to school and I talked to his teacher. I was like, this is what he's wearing. And I thought, you know what a brilliant parent I was.

You know? So when I picked him up from school that day, he wasn't wearing the necklace. And I asked his teacher, I was like, what happened? And she said, oh, that thing was nasty. And she handed the necklace back to me in a plastic bag and I was just so, um, kind of crust fallen. Um, mm-hmm. Felt like, how are we gonna make this work?

But the thing is, because we had had a relationship and because we did, you know, over time build this partnership, she knew Ricky's story. You know, she knew what we were up against. She knew the why that this, um, that he engaged in that behavior. She knew the vision, that we shared a vision for him. We problem solved together.

And, um, he started wearing a bandana to school, and so it was absorbent. I brought her a stack of bandanas that she could swap out, um, through the day, but if it weren't for that relationship, I'm sure that I would've been looking for another placement. Right. Yeah. So it, you know, having, having that ability to problem solve together is so powerful.

That relationship is. Super important. 

Tim Villegas: Oh, wow. Wow. Thank, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Um, that relationship is really powerful. Uh, and, and, and cultivating that. It takes, it takes time. It takes time. Does, um, yeah. Um, something else I've been thinking about is that, you know, um. Just the, the actual challenges that a family would run into as they're advocating mm-hmm.

And seeking inclusive education for their child. So, um, you, your story kind of, um. You know, you, you had a challenge that you worked through with, with, um, an educator, um, and it's because you had a good relationship that you were able to move beyond, um, that challenge. Are there any other kind of common challenges that families face when seeking inclusive education?

Jani Kozlowski: Well, I think the biggest challenge is, like you said, if. If self-contained classrooms or just kind of the way we do things around here. Oh, your child has autism, we have an autism classroom. You know, um, we've got the solution. So to, to be able to have, um, the strength as a parent to say, no, I don't want my child to go in the autism classroom.

She's already in childcare. I want her to stay there and get services there. It's tricky. You know, it's, it's, that's a huge challenge. Mm-hmm. And, and I'm not gonna pretend like that's something that's easy, but I do think that the resources that we have, um, in the parent centers, in the other OEP funded centers like Cadre, you know, where, um, families can get some legal assistance to help them with that, um, process.

You know that having a team of people that can join you in the IEP meeting so that when it comes time to talk about placement, you have somebody else there, um, to help you make that argument. And I'm not gonna say it's always gonna be successful, you know, we saw, forget me Not, um, and this story that Olivier and Hilda shared, and I do think that happens a lot, but I also think that.

Um, when we're able to kind of share our vision for our child with an IEP team and, um, the fact that we have a dream of, you know, the big picture for our child that is living in an inclusive world. I think that there are ways for it to, to be figured out, and we've seen that in community after community where, um, families and educators and, you know, administrators have come together to figure out, well, you know, let's form some partnerships between a childcare program or between a Head Start program so that an inclusive option can be available.

Um, mm-hmm. 

Tim Villegas: Um, you mentioned two resources, uh, with us talking. Could you talk a little bit about Cadre? 'cause I know I've heard about it, but I'm not sure if everyone listening knows about it. 

Jani Kozlowski: Yeah. So maybe we can put the link in the show notes. 

Tim Villegas: Mm-hmm. 

Jani Kozlowski: Um, 'cause I'm done. I'm not an expert. Um, but they are a resource to help families with dispute resolution, for example, and if they have.

Of questions. So it's a, a place to go for that kind of information. 

Tim Villegas: Okay. Yeah. So we'll put that in the show notes. And then the second is the, uh, documentary. Um. 

Jani Kozlowski: Forget me. Not just there. Inclusion in classroom. 

Tim Villegas: Ironic. That's the title. Me not. Oh, yes, yes. So forget me, not And um. Uh, we do have, and I'll put this in our show notes, we did a webinar, a live, uh, webinar with Olivier, uh, where we showed parts of the film, uh, and we had a q and a and also Olivier was a, uh, Olivier was a guest, um, uh, in, in our Think Inclusive universe.

So, we'll, we'll put that, uh, link in the show notes. And I know that you screened, uh, forget Me. Not I, was it for the Inclusion Institute or was it for something else? 

Jani Kozlowski: It was, yes, we had a okay community. She, um, showing it was great and then Olivier joined us and we had a q and a. It was, it was really powerful.

Tim Villegas: Yes, yes. So we'll make sure, um, to put that resource, uh, in our show notes. And, uh, definitely if you haven't seen it, uh, watch the documentary. It's, it's fantastic. So, um, any other, um, any other ideas, uh, for families to overcome challenges? 

Jani Kozlowski: Yeah, I, you know, I think this whole notion of keeping the, the long view in mind.

Um, that where you are now is just one point in your family's journey, one point in your child's life. Um, I kept a journal when Ricky was growing up of kind of the funny things that he said or did. In those early years of his life as one of my cherished possessions, I never would've been able to remember all that stuff if I hadn't written it down.

And I remember at the time thinking that I'm only gonna write the funny things or the happy things, you know, I put pictures in there of all of us smiling, the positive memories. Because I was worried that as an adult he would stumble upon it and, you know, and read about how hard it really was at times.

So I only put the happy times in there. Yeah. And I, the, the funny thing is that when I look back at that and I read that journal, um, I still remember the tough memories and my son does too, because he was there, he lived it. And in many ways those memories I. Are, um, you know, the most powerful to me because it shows me how far we've come, how far Ricky has come, how far I've come as a mom, um, how we've both been able to overcome adversity and how he's been able to thrive in spite of some of that adversity.

And, you know, with the benefit of years, I'm not in that place where the families that I write to in the book are. But with those years behind me, I'm able to see that, um, that the hard times were important times for both of us. And that parenting itself is about embracing the fact that our children are individuals and.

We have everything and nothing at all to do with it, with how they, you know, grow and develop. Oh my 

Tim Villegas: goodness. It's so true. Yeah. 

Jani Kozlowski: Isn't it, isn't it? You know, they always talk about how, how your child turned out. Like it's a pumpkin pie that you took out of the oven and we never do turn out, you know, I mean, we're constantly growing, evolving, and changing through our entire lives and you know, in hindsight it's easy to understand that.

Um, but it really was, it's been a powerful lesson for me because I spent so much time worrying, um, about how I was doing as a mom. You know, was I, um, was I good enough? Was I giving Ricky everything that he needed? Was I making the right choices? You know? Um, but, but come looking back. I think I would've, uh, given myself a little more grace if I had to do it over again, because honestly, it, it is just a point in the journey and we make the best decisions we can, you know, as we go along.

So, so, yeah. And yeah, 

Tim Villegas: I think, you know, we talked, we talked a little bit before about parents having a vision for their children. Right? Right. Um, and I think that is. I mean, it is important, it's a strategy. Um, and as we're, as we're talking just now, I, I think that, you know, as parents, we can have a vision, um, for, you know, that our, our children are happy that they're included, that they feel like they have a sense of belonging.

Um, but sometimes the vision that we, uh, that we have the, of like the outcome. Right. Yeah. Isn't always, um, what actually happens or even what's best, right. For our, mm-hmm. For our children. So I think that that's, it's kind of a, it's kind of a strange thing to think about, um, I guess, but, you know, I, I guess it's important to have one, um, important to have one, but you just don't know.

Jani Kozlowski: We don't know. You don't know. Yeah. It's kind of a paradox, you know? 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. 

Jani Kozlowski: You do. You do wanna have a vision. Um, so that you have something that you're working toward and that, and something very broad. You know, and I, I think part of the vision in my mind is about identifying what the child's strengths and preferences are, and finding a way to make those strengths as strong as they can be, to figuring out a way that as an adult.

The child is gonna be able to do the kinds of things that bring them joy, you know? Mm-hmm. Be in places that bring them joy, be around people that bring them joy. Um, and that's, that's really true for all children. You know, it, it regardless. Um, all children face challenges and. Uh, we have to do that for kids as adults because children don't have, you know, self-reflection.

There's no self-reflection in a 2-year-old. Um, but when we're able to put into words, uh, what we believe our child's strengths are and give some affirmation and encouragement around those strengths and preferences, that's how you end up with a healthy self-image. You know, it's, um, I. And it's especially important for children with disabilities.

Uh, have, have you read the book Born Extraordinary, um, by Meg Zucker? 

Tim Villegas: No, no, no. 

Jani Kozlowski: I'll have to put that in the show notes too. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah, yeah. Another resource. Yeah. Great. 

Jani Kozlowski: Yeah. So I just found it really powerful. And one of the things she wrote is, um, so she has a disability and her children have disabilities. And she wrote, when the world takes one glance at you and reminds you of everything, you aren't, you need to rely on constant reinforcement at home to remind you of everything you are.

And so I think that's part of what the vision is, right, is um. Is being really clear about the fact that we all come with strengths and we all come with challenges and, and to be, um, to presume competence, you know, to respect your child's autonomy, to avoid making assumptions, but really to approach each new, um, act situation with this mindset that your child is capable.

And even though they might not be able to. Master the skill right away. They should be given a chance to try. And when you're start out thinking your child is capable of everything, they might surprise you. You know, because we really don't know. Um, and it also helps us to not jump in to help, you know, so quickly.

Yeah. Because we. You know, starting from the place, well, maybe they can do this themselves, you know, eventually. 

Tim Villegas: Exactly. Uh, yeah. Uh, yeah. Hard to do in practice, but yes, yes, yes. Uh, well, as you know, uh, Janni, a lot of educators listen to this, uh, podcast. Mm-hmm. So, and a lot of K 12 educators, although we do have, you know, people on kind of both ends of the spectrum, uh, pre-K and then, um, higher ed.

Uh, any final thoughts that you'd like our audience to leave our conversation with? 

Jani Kozlowski: Well, I, I feel like it's been, it's been fun to talk about the parent educator relationship because. Um, that was so helpful to me as a parent and, and I found when educators viewed me as a partner, you know, not necessarily, oh, she's the parent, the child's first teacher.

You know, that's really nice. But I just wanted to be a partner. It's like being my partner. Help me figure this out. Let's figure this out together. Um. I might be the expert on things going on at home. You're the expert on things going on at school. You know, let's figure this out together and, um, and share what we're learning.

You know, that guess what, Michael learned how to do this new thing. And that new thing might have been the first time that happened at home, or it may be the first time happened at school. But when you're a partnership, you get to celebrate that new thing together, um, because those, those little celebrations are.

What makes educate being an educator so worthwhile? Um, and I think, you know, we as educators, we are in a very important position of supporting families, you know, of being the one to sort of reach out and offer that kind of partnership. Um, we're also in a position of. Being able to nurture those strengths and preferences and interests.

And we're also in a position of helping the child connect socially, something that families, it's harder for families to do, you know? Um, so I, I remember as a teacher when I noticed that a couple of kids in my class had the same preference. You know, they were both really into something that was kind of obscure, and I shared that with the family.

Both families, um, and kind of made a little friendship match that way. Now the families were, we're so grateful to that. And, and I think for children with disabilities, if they have a harder time making friends, that can be a huge role that we can play as educators too. So, yeah, I, I hope that, um, that they'll share this book with families and, um.

And let me know what they think. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. And so where can people find your book? 

Jani Kozlowski: So there's links to the books at Every Child Can fly.com. They're both published by Griffin House. Um, the Empowering Your Child to Fly is going to be available in audiobook, so that's a new thing. 

Tim Villegas: Right. And did you record the audio book?

Jani Kozlowski: I did not. Um, a very perky sounding lady recorded it. 

Tim Villegas: Okay, okay. Good. Yes. But, 

Jani Kozlowski: um, yes, I think she's like my soul sister. I've never met her, but she's, she's perky just like me and 

Tim Villegas: That's great. And gave my 

Jani Kozlowski: jokes in the exact same way I would've made them. So, but that's 

Tim Villegas: amazing. 

Jani Kozlowski: That's, that should be out soon.

So. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah, so the book is called Empowering Your Child to Fly A Family's Guide to Early Childhood Inclusion. Uh, and for those of you watching on YouTube, I'm holding the, uh, and for those who not who can't see it, I'm actually, uh, holding the book up. Uh, it's got wonderful artwork. Um, and, uh, definitely get one for your library, uh, and use it as a resource.

Um, anything else you wanna promote while you're here, Tammy? 

Jani Kozlowski: Thank you so much for helping me share. Um, if you go to every Child Can fly.com. I do have a newsletter. Um, I always laughed at your Weeklyish ish newsletter. Mine is like every other monthly ish, so very frequent that I, that I put them out. But you can sign up if you're interested in, in staying in touch that way.

So. Ok. Do. 

Tim Villegas: Okay, great. Oh, and, and Jani, the Weeklyish is just coming back, 

Jani Kozlowski: is it? So by the 

Tim Villegas: time, yes. So by the time this airs, this is published, the Weeklyish should be in full, um, publication mode again. So we're, we're starting back in February. Um. So, yeah, I'm very excited about that. Yes. Uh, all right, so Jani, before I let you go, we're, it's time for a mystery question.

Are you ready? 

Jani Kozlowski: Yes. Okay. Dun 

Tim Villegas: dun. All right. That means I should have had my cards ready to go, but they are back here and I forgot to, okay, here we go. All, so here's my stack of cards. And the mystery question is, what is the nicest thing? Actually, you know what? I did this one already. 

Jani Kozlowski: Oh, I 

Tim Villegas: forgot to put it away.

Okay. Uh, what words do you always struggle to spell correctly? 

Jani Kozlowski: Oh, see if I can put that 

Tim Villegas: on the camera. What words do you always struggle to spell correctly? And I definitely have words that I. Cannot spell 'cause I'm not a great speller. 

Jani Kozlowski: Well, I was a really great speller in school and in fact I was runner up in the spelling bee and I remember the word that I got wrong.

So, 

Tim Villegas: wow. What was it? Yes, it 

Jani Kozlowski: was pewter, you know, the metal pewter. Oh yeah. 

Tim Villegas: Yeah. I 

Jani Kozlowski: didn't, I had no idea what that even was. Um, but I did not spell that correctly and I remember that because my mom was so proud of me for doing so well, even though I didn't win. Um, she gave me a little figurine of a pewter made out of pewter of a little girl reading a book, so, 

Tim Villegas: oh, wow.

Wow. That is a sweet memory. 

Jani Kozlowski: Yes. Um. 

Tim Villegas: Well, the one, the word that I always, um, have to look up is, um, restaurant. Oh, restaurant. I just cannot, I can never, it's just like a jumble in my mind, like when I say the word, it's just this kind of. Blurry restaurant. And then also, um, beautiful for some reason is like really hard for me.

Uh, even though like, I know like generally how it's spelled, uh, it's just, it's just so hard. So there's like a few words like that. Those are the two ones that I, uh, and so fortunately for me, I have tools like spell check and then I also subscribe to, uh, Grammarly. Um, so I just. Write, write words without any sort of like, like I know that those, those supports are there for me.

So 

Jani Kozlowski: isn't that wonderful? I mean, you don't have to worry about it anymore, just, yeah. Yeah. I struggle with the ones that have like two ends. Or two T's. You never know. Is this one that only has one M or does this have two T? Yeah. 

Tim Villegas: Right, exactly. Check is a favorite. 

Jani Kozlowski: Definitely. 

Tim Villegas: Oh, I love spell check. Oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes.

AI. Wait, go ahead. Sometimes 

Jani Kozlowski: you spell it so bad that Spellchecks like, I have no idea. I like, I dunno what you're trying to say. 

Tim Villegas: I'm sorry. No. Um, yeah, and, and, uh, and I've been utilizing AI a lot more too, so, um, oh yeah. I will, I will ask. So we have like a number of AI tools that I use. I use chat GBT sometimes.

And then we have co-pilot, uh, 'cause we are like, we we're a Microsoft, um, organization, so we have a lot of Microsoft tools mm-hmm. And co-pilot's, one of 'em. Um, and I will, yeah, I will often be like, okay, um, you know, make this sound, um. You know, a little bit more creative or can you, can you suggest a word instead of this word or mm-hmm.

You know, uh, can you check the grammar? And then, you know, so there's a lot of things that I use, uh, AI for to help me just be a better writer. So that's cool. 

Jani Kozlowski: And you know, Tim, that is an example of universal design. Mm-hmm. And it's assistive technology that we all benefit from, you know, it's another, um.

It's another example of how, um, ability is just a continuum and we're all really good at some things and really need support in other things. And, you know, one day our world will be kind of all of the equivalent of spellcheck that everyone has the, the tools that they need and. We're not right categorizing people based on those needs, you know, we're just figuring out ways to support each other.

So yeah, that's my vision. 

Tim Villegas: That's, that's a beautiful vision. Jan Klowski, thank you so much for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast. Uh, this was so much fun. 

Jani Kozlowski: It was fun. It's great to be with you again, Tim.

Thank you so much for, for having me on and helping me share about the book. Appreciate it. 

That's all the time we have for, this episode of Think Inclusive. Now let's roll the credits. Think inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. I handle the writing, editing, design, mixing, and mastering. This podcast is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Our original music is by Miles Kredich, with additional tunes by Melod.ie.

A big shout out to our sponsor, IXL. Check them out at ixl.com/inclusive. We truly appreciate each and every one of you who tunes in. We'd love to hear how you're using these episodes. Are they part of your teaching toolkit? Are you sharing them with school administrators? Drop me a line at tvillegas@mcie.org and let me know.

And hey, if you're still with us this far into the episode, it probably means that you love, think inclusive and the work MCIE is doing. So can I ask a small favor? I. Help us keep the momentum going by donating at our website mcie.org. Just click the button at the top of the site and chip in five, 10, $20.

It would mean the world to us in the children, in the schools and districts we partner with. Thanks for your time and attention and remember, inclusion always works. 

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