Riley Mulcahy === Tim Villegas: [00:00:00] Riley Mulcahy, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast. Riley Mulcahy: Thanks for having me, Tim. Tim Villegas: Oh, Riley. We met a couple, well, it's been a little over a year now. We met at the. Educating all learners Alliance, community of action meeting. Uh, and that's when I first got to know you and a little bit about your work, and I'm so happy that you're here. Um, could you just to get us started, share a little bit about yourself, um, and the Raleigh project, and we'll kind of just take it from there. Riley Mulcahy: Um, course, really excited to be here tonight. Um, so my name is Riley and I am the Executive Director of the Rally Project, which is a non-profit that is based on making sure that storytelling of students in individuals with [00:01:00] learning differences, um, can happen in a safe space. With the goal to, uh, educate and bring awareness to, um, educators and other community ME Tim Villegas: members. Fantastic. And, um, why, like, why the Riley Project, um, in particular, like what, what was it about that your, about your journey that, that moved you to start the project? I. Riley Mulcahy: Yes. So I was diagnosed with dyslexia at age seven. And so, um, there were a lot of, um, identifiers pretty early on that I was gonna struggle to. Read and write in a non multisensory way of learning. So my parents really advocated for me, um, and made sure that when the district said, oh, Riley, [00:02:00] Riley will have to wait or will have to wait until Riley fails to really give the resources needed. And, um, the horrible way to fail model my parents decided, you know. Luckily we had the means to go to a private school, Charles Armstrong, um, which helped me to read, they used the sling Slingerland method. And so, um, really just coming out of that personal experience, obviously the, the name attached to it, um, but. My name attached to it, but excited, um, to seeing what the possibilities are on storytelling in advocacy. And so that's sort of how I got me started. Tim Villegas: Gotcha. Um, a couple things that I pulled out from what you just said, um, multisensory, um. Like instruction for reading. Mm-hmm. [00:03:00] Right. And then this idea of waiting to fail. So let's unpack those 'cause I think those are really interesting. So tell us more. 'cause um, we do have a lot of educators that listen. Uh, they may or may not know that term multisensory instruction for reading. So, um, what is that? How, how can we understand that a little bit better? Riley Mulcahy: Sure. Well, also I shouldn't send, the important fact is I. Through a science to reading methodology in, in, and making sure that the technology is infused in. Um, so I'm 25, so. Smart boards were all the rage back then. We still use smart boards at the school that I work at, but making sure that there's different ways of accessing the material. People may be familiar with the UDL [00:04:00] framework that mm-hmm. Um, so making sure that there's ways to access the material that are not just a lecture all for, and students are learning differences. Tim Villegas: Right. Right. Um, and so this reminds me of a, of a conversation I was having with some educators. Um, I teach, I teach a class for, um, uh, for people who are already working in the school system but are taking an alternate path to certification for, to be a special education teacher. And something that we talk about is. That reading interventions, um, that a reading intervention isn't a person, you know, it's actually an intervention. Like it's something that you do and you [00:05:00] plan for, for a particular student. And so, um. Sometimes it, it's a little confusing because people will say, well, that student needs one-on-one instruction. Right? But what does that. Person is doing right. If they're just doing, using the same methodology as if you were in a whole group, then that's not really specially designed, and it's not really an intervention. It's just one, it's just like a, uh, a one to, to one relationship, and that's not a, an actual intervention. Riley Mulcahy: So many of these reading interventions would just, like a lot of the principles of UDL or all of the principles of UDL would help the whole class look classroom, you know? Right. And so, um, and so I was fortunate enough to go to a school that had small group instruction, one-on-one [00:06:00] instructions. But to your point, we were using very specific reading interventions that. You know, this one fits size all one size, fits all. Model doesn't work as we know. But also, um, you know, following the research of what actually works in classrooms and, um. And yes, I will say the science of reading debate for another day, but you know, but I really think that it's important to have strong reading interventions. Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, no, that's interesting. And you know, now that I think about it, we probably should have, uh, an episode. About that. I think that that'd be interesting. Although they, if you listen to sold the story that that podcast sold the story. Listen, it's just, it's fantastic. I, I would recommend it to anyone. Uh, so, um, as long, I mean, you're listening to a podcast now, so you, you must like them, [00:07:00] so you should probably go listen to Sold the Story. Um, so Excellent, excellent. Was the Riley Mulcahy: first time. I was retweeted when it was safe to be on Twitter, uh, with, uh, with the, from the New York Times opinion section. So, Emily Hanford Hanford, who's the reporter that broke the story, um, sold the story, um, wrote something in the New York Times. They had a great education piece, and I, uh, retweeted it. And, um, the New York Times opinion section, you know, my very, um, small dose of fame got to my head, but, um, but you know, Emily's work is amazing. Tim Villegas: Yes. Yes. That's great. I love that. I love that. Um, another thing you said, which is something that we really like to talk about is storytelling. Um, and storytelling is really [00:08:00] important to you and, and the Riley project. So, um. Uh, how, so I guess let, let's start here. Uh, why, why do you think storytelling is important? And then we can get into maybe some examples. Riley Mulcahy: Yeah. If you think of all of the movements, whether it be civil rights movements, different, um, political movements, what do they have in common? A pretty strong narrative or story that, um, that is the basis of what they're trying to accomplish. So, um, for example, um, Judy Human who passed away a couple years ago. Um, you know, she was able to change the laws along with a lot of other people with disabilities because they were talking about their [00:09:00] experiences not being able to access certain spaces. Um, and, and so I. Looking at the, at storytelling, definitely writing. And we also make sure that we are accessible in the video, um, and text to speech arena. So we partnered with Good sneaker, which is a, um, management platform that helps with storytelling. But I point in saying, uh, is so often people with learning differences are told, you know, especially me, I was discouraged, you know. Writing. Um, writing and reading are gonna be difficult. Well, I also had teachers that looked at me and said, Hey, you actually have a gift for writing. I'd be like, what? Somebody with dyslexia could be a writer. What? And so part of storytelling is shifting the narrative of, um, making sure that we are not [00:10:00] just looking at the deficit model, but looking at it Like my friend Gilbert Gau says, who's a dyslexic designer of dyslexia and other learning differences are actually hyper ability. So spreading that awareness is the first step to any really meaningful change, if that makes sense. Tim Villegas: Yeah, absolutely. Um, are there any stories or impactful moments from your work with the Rally project that, that are on top of mind that you'd like to share? Riley Mulcahy: I am thinking of a couple and I'll just share the common thread of, um, you know, so often for people with disabilities, we have to create the change that we want to see in our own life. And a lot of times what happens is, um. People with a DHD with different invisible learning [00:11:00] differences are challenged. So, um, I can think of a friend who shared a story, Shannon, who um, story is really impactful and it's talking about the struggles of, um, getting. Getting accommodations for her A DHD, um, and, um, different medication. What, what that means that to have a DHD in that, that specific journey. And also the compacting mental health aspect that, um, it's not always touched on, you know, um, the anxiety, the depression that can happen, um, when you have a, a learning difference. And also another is just. Going through the process of having an IEP or a 5 0 4 as a high schooler or a middle schooler or, um, how parents have had to advocate. So those are [00:12:00] sort of the, a couple of examples. Hmm. Tim Villegas: Um, what about, like, what about your story as far as, um. Like pursuing inclusive practices, pursuing like inclusion and acceptance. Um, is there, um, is like what kind of common threads have you seen in like, in your own story and even, even in the creation of the Riley project? Riley Mulcahy: I think again, it's that, that struggling to, um, struggling in a system that it's not designed for people with dis disabilities, right? So I went to college, I majored, um, in communications. Um, I knew that taking a math class was going to be. Uh, difficult. I [00:13:00] didn't, I knew that it was probably going to be impossible to take a college level math class due to my learning differences. Um, I went to a, a college that, um, their disability services director said, you know, you don't need a, you can choose from a notebook or, or a note taker. Sorry, a note taker or a, um, sorry. Let's do that again. Um. I, I went to a college that really, um, was difficult in getting accommodations either. The process wasn't difficult. I was told that I could have access to a note taker or a recor, or record the lecture. Not both. Um, I was told that my below average test scores were, um, mm-hmm. Were that they [00:14:00] were, sorry, I'm really sorry. So, um, here, can you repeat the question? No, take your time. Tim Villegas: Sorry. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So I, um, the question was, um, what, in your experience, like you, the experience that you had in school, um. And the challenges that you faced, like in just advocating for yourself and inclusive, you know, just, uh, inclusion, being accepted, uh, like what are some of the things that you've learned, um, you know, in, in your schooling and then in the creation of the Riley project? I don't know if that helped. Riley Mulcahy: No, it did. It did. Yes. Um, okay. I, I think some, some tips is definitely, um, the importance of self-advocacy and [00:15:00] self-awareness in, um, in students, and I really think that. Educators and school systems should be fostering more of that. We have social emotional learning. Um, but really how does your disability affect you? How do you know to advocate for, um, different accommodations or modifications that you need? And what are accommodations? What are our modifications? Because so much of that, especially in the college arena where parents. Go sort of outta the way aside unless you mm-hmm are, they are able to be in the conversations. If you give access to that, that's the pivotal transition where a lot of students are struggle to, um, know themselves honestly. But, so having a place for storytelling, you know, having a place [00:16:00] where people can share their experiences, can maybe. Create some awareness of, oh, I have a DHD, here's how it manifests in me. Because that's a big thing. Like all of these learning differences are a spectrum, right? So the one person's experience is not gonna be the others. Um, and so having a range of stories is really important as well. Tim Villegas: Yes, absolutely. We see ourselves in the stories that we, you know, read, watch, listen to, um, and, and so if someone is. Is it's experiencing a story that like someone is telling a story and you're listening, and however you're experiencing that, you can see yourself in that challenge. And then either learn from that challenge or get ideas on how to, you know, tackle your own challenges. Um, [00:17:00] and. What I find interesting too is that the stories don't necessarily have to be true, right? Like I think about the, think about fiction, right? Yeah. Um, I'm reading a, um, I'm reading a science fiction fantasy. Series right now. Um, and it's called The Wheel of Time. Uh, it's, it's actually pretty popular. I'd never even heard of it until like a couple years ago. And it's like this epic, uh, journey. All of these different characters and they're like going across the lands and stuff like that. But, um. This is completely made up. It's not true. But somehow I find myself in those characters and I'm like, what would I do in that situation? And, and I'm connected to these people that are not real. Right. You know? Um, but it doesn't make it any less impactful. Right. Riley Mulcahy: That's a great one. And [00:18:00] also a lot of, uh, people with learning differences are. Authors of fiction or poets that, you know, it, it doesn't have to be true. If you can have the experience right to your point, talk about that experience. It's, it's really powerful. Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, we talked a little bit about technology or you brought it up, uh, and I'm wondering if there, there are some tech, like assisted technology or I don't know how you would phrase it exactly. Um, but are some, there's some examples of technology that, that have helped you or that have helped, um, people, uh, that have been affected by the Riley project? Riley Mulcahy: Yes. So many things. Of course, first thing that comes to mind are text to speech, speech to text. Um, but actually I've heard about something [00:19:00] that, um. And I got to test it out with, um, and they use it at the school that they I am at now. Um, it's called Cognition Labs, and they're coming out with a, or they have an OCR reader so people can take photos of, um, texts. And it's meant for people with dyslexia and it breaks down, um, from the syllables, um, up upper cases, um, capitalizes, um. Confusing letters. Um, and so, um, and color codes and the words. And so technologies like that definitely are, um, really helpful. Um, and, and, and I. Hoping we can have a partnership with 'em to see once they have, um, more features to see if we can add it to our site. Um, and I also will say we do [00:20:00] not use AI presently for our site, but I would really be interested in how, um, we could help guide the storytelling process, you know, if it's, um, making sure that. If they want to use a grammar or spelling check, what if that's using chat? GPT? I really think embracing that a lot of people with learning differences can use AI as a tool of course, responsibly. But um, is something that we could look forward to. I think. Tim Villegas: Yeah, I totally agree. And, uh, I, I mean, I use, I use AI e even, you know, in, in this, in this role, uh, with our organization. Um, and I'm finding that I'm actually relying on it more and more because then I, I, because I realize what it can [00:21:00] do, you know? Uh, and, and so I'm wondering, what I'm hearing you say is if. AI can help in, in, um, framing or structuring a story, uh, of a person, right? And aiding them in, in telling that story. I think that that's a really interesting use of, uh, of AI for, for good, not, not for, because we know it's not for the bad things. Oh yeah, exactly. It's not going away. Right, right. And so Riley Mulcahy: why not? And especially for educators, I actually saw a custom GPT on LinkedIn on all places that is a UDL plan. So you put in your lesson plan as an educator and it will have ideas on how to make it to the design for UDL and um. And making sure that like [00:22:00] there's an awareness or there's a literacy of AI for students with learning differences. Because I really think use for good. It can be a great tool. I use it for my job. I use it for the project. And even breaking ideas that I already have down and you know, synthesizing things. I think it, it's a great, yeah. Tim Villegas: Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow, that's great. Um, something else I thought of that, I don't know if it's helpful or not. Um, I. I feel like there are certain fonts, um, that are quote unquote dyslexia. Dyslexia fonts. Is that, am I saying that right? Or, or ones that are supposed to be easier to read? Riley Mulcahy: Yes, yes. And now I've, I've used dyslexia fonts, um, and there are, um. Um, there's, [00:23:00] gosh, I'm trying to think. There is actively learn. Um, cast of new DL has an IUs which break down the, um, text and have, um, so if you're reading a book, it will have just like to fun. Um hmm. I think some, there's some controversy because again, we're assuming that all people with dyslexia or with different learning differences can, um, can read that font can or that it's a benefit to them. But for. Um, for the, uh, purpose, I think it serves it. There's also a dyslexic advantage, which has been around for a long time, and there there's a book, the Dyslexic Advantage, and I know that they have research and tools, um, on different fonts and, um, [00:24:00] a different research pertaining to dyslexia too. Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's, and it's certain, there's certainly a difference between like, oh, you're, you know, you. You're dyslexic or you have di dyslexia. I'm not sure which one you prefer, but, uh, it's like, well now you must read everything in this font. It's like, that's not what we're saying. It's like the, the font is a tool and it could be used, you know, um, right. It in Yeah. These wide generalizations. Yeah. Um, which is, which brings me to one to a question. Um. Th this, uh, topic of dyslexia is really not one that I think we've covered, uh, on the podcast. And there may be some educators that while they're, um, they're. Exposure to [00:25:00] learners with this dyslexia has, are probably limited, especially since the, like the word dyslexia is never really talked about in public school. Like I know when I was in public school, it's like, no, you cannot say that. Right? Because it's not in the IEP. Like, you can't put it. And I, and I'm trying to remember why I think it was because. Gosh, I don't even really know why, um, that particular word is, is not really, like, it was never really, you know, put that, that, but that's not my question. Sorry. No, my question is, what are some characteristics of learners with dyslexia that educators may want to know? Um, just simply because they, they don't know. They don't know like, um, really anything about these learners, and they may have them in their class. Riley Mulcahy: Well, I would just say, and actually when I had my, when I was on an IEPI qualified under other health [00:26:00] impairment. To your point, they don't use dyslexia. Um, in IEPs, however, and again, I'm not a researcher, I do that. Uh, I do not pretend to be. However, my understanding is that the struggle is really, um, in the process of reading is the, um, understanding the phonemic awareness. So sounding out words, um, mm-hmm. Sometimes, um, but not all the time. Sometimes. Um, well, um. Flip their, the letters. They have a hard time, um, with reading comprehension. But another thing to, um, that I would stress is dyslexia is an umbrella term of different reading disorders and, uh, differences. And so, [00:27:00] um, I. I would stress that, um, Marian Wolf, um, who is a researcher at UCSF, or sorry, uh, UCLA, um, she wrote the Pro and the Squid and she also has talked about how unnatural reading is actually for everyone in our brain. And so, um, and she has some really fascinating work, but, um, it definitely would. Recommend the Dyslexic Advantage and other resources, um, that can talk more, but that's a very basic understanding. So you check. Gotcha. Okay. Mm-hmm. Tim Villegas: Okay. Um, what about for families who may have children, um, with, um, with learning differences, um, are any advice to, to parents as they, as they're navigating the school system, [00:28:00] and then just how to support their child? Riley Mulcahy: Yes. Early intervention and detection is key. Um, if you suspect that your, um, child has a learning difference and you are in a public school or even private school, um, your home district has a obligation, I believe it's 60 days or 90 days, um, that they, they need to assess your student. Um. There are so many, um, laws and it can get really challenging, especially the IEP process, but don't feel rushed to sign anything in the IEP process if you can't have an advocate, um, with you or, um, even a friend who's gone through this process. And a lot of it is. Making sure that the IEP [00:29:00] goals, if, if that's, um, a part of it, if you can get an IEP, is making sure that the goals actually align with your student. And that's a big, big issue. And, um, have maybe your advocate or somebody. Work with the district to make strength-based? I think so instead of talking about the deficits, only making sure there's a sort of a whole child understanding of what, what did your student enjoy doing? What is your student good at? And then talk about all of the, all of the challenges that are needed because, um. The laws, but I think that's a key, key piece to it. I would also say, um, there's the Neurodiversity Education Series, which is the Riley Project, um, [00:30:00] parent venture. Um, children's health Council in real two e, um, are doing it. It's a free virtual, um, webinar. Uh, we've had. Six or seven already. Um, and it's top presenters on neurodiversity. And so, um, there's definitely resources out there. I know that it's really stressful. I can imagine as a parent to, um, go through those resources, but also. Trust your gut if it, if something's that seem right, especially during the IEP process, know that there are resources. Tim Villegas: Awesome. And we'll definitely link the Riley project and then those resources in the show notes, uh, for anyone who wants more information about that. Um. So speaking of the Riley project and the, the resources that you do offer, [00:31:00] um, you know, how can, how can listeners get involved, um, with the Riley project, uh, support the Riley project, uh, or, and just get more information about it. Riley Mulcahy: Yeah, so it is you visitors site. We have, um, we show our stories. We share our stories that we already have. Um, if you have a student. Um, high school, college, or if you have, um, student or if you have an adult with, um, learning differences, please share your story. It's really impactful. We can, we can then show a video. If you share your story, um, write, you can write it out or text a speech. We have all those options. Um, really hoping. I understand that that takes a lot to share your story. I'm really hoping we can figure out a way to do like a white paper so people can share [00:32:00] anonymously and, um, so that pressure of going public is, um, lessened. Um, of course we are profit, we would love your support, um, but. Really, I think also we're in a phase where we're looking at how we can support students locally in the Bay Area. We're looking at, um, an in-person group that talks a lot about self-awareness and self-advocacy, and we're looking for also is. For educators or nonprofit leaders looking at it is, um, creating sustaining partnerships so that we can continue to share stories and create more awareness too. Tim Villegas: Gotcha. Okay. Um, and, um, I don't, we talked about this before we started recording, but you [00:33:00] are located in the, the Bay area of California. Riley Mulcahy: Yes, but we, we share stories na, from, uh, coming from NA nationally. Um, and so, um, and we, we have national partners like educating All Learners Alliance, which you mentioned. I. Tim Villegas: Yeah. Yes. Gotcha. Okay, great, great. Um, we do have a lot of educators that listen. Um, is there anything that you'd want educators to walk away from the, you know, from this conversation with? Riley Mulcahy: I would say that the key to making sure that, uh, students are at same, uh, especially with learning, learning differences. Is to really make sure that they are, I feel like they're understood and like they belong. So making sure that, [00:34:00] um, you know, in any way that you can, making sure that there's, it's creating a safe environment for students. And I think that's, you know, is it a club that they started? Is it providing the agency that they can start a, um. Club, you could be a, a supervisor. I'm also stressed, like believe your students. Um, you know, I think a lot of times, um, educators are stressed out, underpaid, and I totally simplifi, but you know, for the most part when a kid with A DHD is traveling you, that, um, they're distracted or they need more time. They're not trying to get out of work. They're really trying to advocate for themselves, and I think it's really important for, um, teachers to understand that too.[00:35:00] Mm-hmm. Tim Villegas: Um, awesome. Well, uh, let's, uh, I'm going to. Uh, make sure we have all of the information that you shared with, uh, me in our conversation, in the show notes, uh, links to the Riley project, and then, um, you know, best of luck with, uh, the future of the project and we're just really glad to have you. Um, can you stay on for the mystery question? Where did my. Riley Mulcahy: You there Think, I think, I think Tim Villegas: maybe the, the connection is a little bit off. Sorry. And I'm, I'm back. I, I could hear the mystery question. Okay, great. Okay. All right. Sorry about that. No, no problem. Internet, you know. [00:36:00] All right, here we go then. Me, your question is. Uh, which actor or actress would you want you, would you, I'm sorry, lemme say that again. Which actor or actress would you want to play you in a movie of your life? That's a hard question. Which actor or actress would you want to play you in a movie of your life? Wow. Wow. Riley Mulcahy: Well, I just saw the, uh, Bob Dylan movie and completely unknown, and I wouldn't be mad at Timothy Cha play me, but you know, I, I, I don't know how realistic that is, but, um, yeah, Timothy Cha, why not Tim Villegas: Timothy? Why not? Yeah. Oh my God. And I really wanna see that movie too. Is it, is it good? Riley Mulcahy: It is, it's very good. Um, [00:37:00] they, they did a really good job. Of course there's some Hollywood fanfare, but Very good. Tim Villegas: Uh, that's great. That's great. Um, gosh. Um, I'm trying to think who, okay, so, oh, I'm gonna have to look up his name right now because I can't. Um, I'm not gonna be able to remember, but he is an SNL character that we love. Uh, an SNL person. Marcello. Marcello Hernandez. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Marcello Hernandez. Okay. So Marcello Hernandez. Um, because I think that if they made a movie of my life, I'd want it to be funny. Mm-hmm. You know, and I really like him. So, Marcelo, if you're out there and listening and you wanna make a movie about my life, you're my guy. Okay. Call me Timothy. [00:38:00] Yes. Call me. Call me. All right. This is awesome. Awesome, awesome. RI Muli, thank you so much for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast. This was a lot of fun. Riley Mulcahy: Yeah, I really excited to join and thank you so much for having me.