Filmmaker Dan Habib discusses the importance of positive behavior support in schools ~ 204

Tim Villegas
I’m recording from my living room in beautiful Marietta, Georgia. You’re listening to the Think Inclusive Podcast, Episode Seven. I’m your host, Tim Villegas. Today, I will be speaking with Dan Habib about his new film Who Cares About Kelsey. The film will be broadcast on public television beginning the weekend of September 28, 2013. In addition to the film, there are 11 mini-films available to watch on the website http://whocaresaboutkelsey.com that support the message of inclusion and positive behavior support.

Dan and I talk about Positive Behavioral Interventions and Supports, the importance of leadership and systems change, and the all-important question of who we think is going to win the World Series. So without further ado, let’s get to the podcast. Thanks for listening.

Joining us today on the Think Inclusive Podcast is Dan Habib. Dan is a former photojournalist turned filmmaker whose award-winning documentary Including Samuel captured the hearts of the disability rights community, including my own. His most recent film, Who Cares About Kelsey, follows high schooler Kelsey Carroll in her senior year as she attempts to graduate while coming to grips with a history of abuse, neglect, failing grades, and ADHD. The film challenges us to reframe our concept of the “problem student” and gives us an approach that is much more empowering and proactive.

Dan, thank you for taking some time out of your day to speak with me.

Dan Habib
Oh, it’s a pleasure, Tim. Thanks for having me.

Tim Villegas
Great. I know that for many of the people who listen to this podcast, you really don’t need an introduction. A lot of us know you from your work on Including Samuel, which chronicled what full inclusion looks like for your son. What kind of connections do you think can be made from Including Samuel to your most recent film, Who Cares About Kelsey? Do you see similar themes about inclusion and never giving up on a student? Were those intentional?

Dan Habib
Yeah, thanks for the question. I think there were a lot of connections. Doing Including Samuel and traveling around the country with it led to this film. I never would have done Who Cares About Kelsey if I hadn’t had that experience.

As you probably know, Including Samuel is focused largely on my son, Samuel. He’s a pretty amazing kid—of course, I’m biased—but he’s a huge sports fan. We live in New England, so he’s big into the Red Sox, the Patriots, and NASCAR. He loves science and social studies. He’s in eighth grade now, doing really well, and has been on the honor roll. He also has cerebral palsy, uses a communication device for most of his communication, has a feeding tube, and uses a wheelchair for mobility.

When I did Including Samuel, I had no idea where it was going to go. I just felt like it was a film I had to do. But it led me around the country. I’ve shown it more than 400 times in over 40 states and multiple countries. One question that came up again and again was: “Do you think it might be harder to include kids with more hidden disabilities than those with more obvious ones like Samuel’s?”

So I started thinking about that and doing some research. First, what is a hidden disability? It’s a huge swath of labels or categories. It can include mental health issues like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, PTSD, anxiety, depression, fetal alcohol syndrome—you name it. It can be caused by genetics, environmental factors like poverty or abuse, or neurological issues.

What I found in talking with people is that a lot of educators were actually having a more difficult time including and supporting kids with hidden disabilities. The outcomes for these kids are awful. There’s over a 50% dropout rate. About 55% of these kids are not included in general education classrooms. They’re twice as likely as kids with other disabilities to be incarcerated, addicted to drugs, teen parents, or living on the street after graduation.

All those factors and conversations led me to want to do a project that could be a catalyst for change for kids with hidden disabilities—just like Including Samuel was for kids with physical disabilities.

Tim Villegas
So how did you find out about Somersworth High School? Was it because of its proximity to where you live?

Dan Habib
That’s part of it. Who Cares About Kelsey was filmed at Somersworth High School. I started asking around—people like Paula Kluth, who’s a friend and advisor—and asked, “What model should I be showing to demonstrate what it takes to support and include these kids successfully?” Certain words kept coming up: Positive Behavioral Supports, Universal Design for Learning, differentiated instruction. These are widely respected, evidence-based practices that help all kids learn. But unfortunately, they’re not being implemented in many schools.

Luckily, in my own state, some of my colleagues at the Institute on Disability at UNH had been doing work in this high school. It’s a pretty low-income community with limited resources, but they were committed to getting every kid to graduate. They had one of the highest dropout rates in the state. They brought in PBIS—Positive Behavioral Interventions and Supports—as a dropout prevention mechanism. An expert told them, “If you do this and do it well, you’ll dramatically reduce the dropout rate.” That got everyone on board.

At the same time, they implemented a program called RENEW, a person-centered planning approach for kids at risk of dropping out. It helps build a team around them—advisors and supporters—to break down seemingly insurmountable tasks into manageable steps toward graduation.

Over four years, they reduced the dropout rate by 75% and disciplinary problems by 65%. Kelsey was in the middle of that transformation.

Tim Villegas
I’m hearing a lot of different kinds of buzzwords for those who are familiar with inclusion. I’m hearing Positive Behavior Intervention Supports, Universal Design for Learning, person-centered planning. As a believer in inclusion for all kids, those are really important. How did this particular high school get all of that support all at once? Like you said, Kelsey was a lucky recipient of being in that environment, and then also you being involved with this film highlighting the changes that affected her and the school. How does that happen exactly?

Dan Habib
Well, it can happen in a lot of different ways depending on the school. One thing I will say is, as I’ve talked to a lot of people around the country, money is not the biggest factor in school transformation or inclusion. Yes, education needs money—no doubt about it. You want to have a good staffing ratio, properly trained staff, and the right technology. That’s just good education.

But what I found makes the biggest difference is great leadership. Somersworth had that in Principal Sharon Lamprey. I think it’s very difficult to have this type of positive transformation without strong leaders. You also need an attitude within the school that says, “We support every kid. We’re not giving up on any kid. We presume competence in every student.”

We all struggle at some point, whether we have a disability or not. You’ve got to help kids through those bumps.

Specifically, in Somersworth, there was a New Hampshire Department of Education grant that incentivized Positive Behavioral Supports. That helped them get training for their staff. The fact that someone from the UNH Institute on Disability helped facilitate the process was extremely helpful. But ultimately, the capacity had to be built internally. They weren’t relying on outside consultants for years—they took this on themselves.

PBIS is about looking at the school and saying, “80% of the students here will be successful if we have a really positive, healthy school climate and good instruction.” That’s easier said than done. So a lot of their focus was on working on school culture—making it a place where kids and staff felt safe, respected, and part of a community. There was consistency around discipline and language.

Then there are maybe 10–15% of kids who need something more—extra instructional support. They might need to check in with someone in the morning and again at the end of the day. That’s called “Check-In/Check-Out”—a Tier 2 support.

And then there are the Kelseys of the world, who have everything going against them. They need intensive supports. Otherwise, they’ll drop out or be sent to a “special school” for behavior problems, which often just groups together kids with challenging behavior—not a good roadmap.

Kelsey had severe ADHD, depression, and anxiety. She was very public in the film about being sexually abused as a kid. She was self-mutilating in eighth and ninth grade. Her mother was heavily into drugs and emotionally disconnected. Many of her siblings had teen pregnancies or negative school experiences. Everything in her life pointed toward dropping out, probably getting into trouble with the law.

The film is really about how the school worked with her to change her trajectory. Now she’s taking college classes, training to be a firefighter, and traveling around the country with me to open people’s minds.

Tim Villegas
Yeah, it’s great to see the transformation that Kelsey goes through at the end of the film. I don’t want to give away too much…

Dan Habib
Right! Hopefully people will catch it on public television.

Tim Villegas
That’s right. Since you brought that up—September 28, it’s going to be on public television, but not everywhere. Only in certain cities, right?

Dan Habib
Yes. The best way to know if it’s going to be in your area is to go to our website, whocaresaboutkelsey.com. There’s a big red “Public Broadcast” label right on the front. Click on that, and it lists where all the broadcasts are happening and when, all around the country. Kelsey and I are also doing a lot of community events this year. We have a whole upcoming screening schedule as well.

Tim Villegas
Since I’m based here in Georgia, I didn’t see any Georgia dates. Have you been to Georgia? Are you planning on coming?

Dan Habib
Oh yeah, I was in Georgia for the behavioral support conference about a year ago. The next time I might be there is if my son wants to go see the NASCAR races in Talladega. That might just be a pleasure trip to Atlanta. We tend to get invitations from all around the country, and we try to go where we’re invited. But unfortunately, I won’t be in your backyard anytime soon.

Tim Villegas
Well, no pressure or anything!

Dan Habib
I’d love to visit in person.

Tim Villegas
Let’s talk about this idea of “good kids” and “bad kids.” Many students in situations like Kelsey’s get labeled as “bad kids.” I’ve heard it before, and I know other educators and parents have too. Is there such a thing as a bad kid or a good kid? And do we ever get into the mindset of, “Well, we just can’t save everybody”?

Dan Habib
First of all, I almost named this film No Bad Kids. That kind of gives away my hand. I don’t think there are bad kids. I think there are kids who have challenging behavior, but that behavior happens for a reason. Behavior is often a form of communication.

When kids act out—whether they’re 2 or 18—there’s a reason. Some kids act out to get attention because they’re not getting enough at home or school. Some act out to get tossed out of a classroom where they’re not feeling successful. Some kids even prefer getting suspended because it gets them out of a place where they feel like failures.

I interviewed incarcerated youth for this project, and they talked about how they’d get drunk or high and hang out with friends. That was a “great day” for them. It shows the failure of punitive approaches. When you figure out what’s at the root of a kid’s behavior, you can help them.

Some kids just need to be taught appropriate behavior. That doesn’t mean they’re sociopaths. It means they haven’t learned the skills yet. Behavior needs to be taught just like math or reading.

Tim Villegas
The film Who Cares About Kelsey, and also the mini-films—which are fabulous, by the way—mostly talk about older kids. I know you have one mini-film about a little autistic girl named Tasha. Can you talk a little bit about what elementary and middle schools can do in regards to PBIS and how to support kids who have challenging behavior?

Dan Habib
Yeah, of course. Nationally, more elementary and middle schools practice Positive Behavioral Supports (PBIS) than high schools. In the case of Somersworth High, that’s more the exception than the rule. Even at the preschool level, more programs are implementing school-wide positive supports.

There’s a stat that’s really stunning: the grade level at which more kids are expelled than any other is preschool.

Tim Villegas
Really? Preschool?

Dan Habib
Yes, preschool. More kids are expelled in preschool than any other level of school, which is stunning. Partly because they can—most preschools are private—but also because behavior is so misunderstood at every age, especially at that age.

At the elementary and middle school level, many of the practices I tried to show in the film and mini-films—which people can watch for free on our website—are very applicable. The Kelsey story was dramatic and covered a lot of ground, but I wanted to show more. I wanted to show kids like Marcel.

Ashley Marcel is featured in a film that’s part of the education kit we sell. That one looks at racial disparities in discipline. African American boys are disciplined and punished at a much higher rate than white kids. You see that in Marcel’s story. He escalates very quickly and intensely to violence, and the school handles it in an amazing way by asking, “What are the rules of behavior?”

There’s something called a Functional Behavioral Assessment (FBA) that’s done, particularly when kids are younger, but really anytime a kid has challenging behavior. You track when the behavior occurs, look at everything that happens before it, and try to identify triggers. Then you ask, “Is there a way to eliminate that trigger?”

In Tasha’s case—the little autistic girl—you see a school with positive supports and incredible staff. They use augmentative communication devices, and she has access to one. They found that one of her triggers was the word “no.” Every time someone said “no,” she would have a meltdown. You might say, “Well, you have to say no,” but there are other ways to redirect a child. Instead of saying “no,” you can say, “This isn’t the best time for that right now. How about we do that later?” She responded very well to that.

I also looked at critical times in kids’ lives when things go awry. In interviewing six incarcerated youth for short films, I found that often it was middle school. Often, they weren’t the troublemakers—they were kids like Tareekh, who was drunk every day in seventh grade and nobody noticed. He’d sleep in the back of the room. He wasn’t making trouble, but he got arrested 10 times in middle school. He clearly needed help and proactive intervention, but all he got was punishment.

Nicole Gray is another powerful story. At 14, she got involved in an emotionally abusive relationship with a boy. I won’t give away too much, but she ended up doing something really horrible because this boy manipulated her.

Then there’s Axel, a kid who was underestimated for years because of autism. When he went to a new school—coincidentally also in Somersworth—they worked hard to give him the communication tools he needed. For many kids who don’t have access to communication tools, the only way they can express themselves is by acting out. It’s a desperate attempt to say, “Pay attention to me. I’m trying to tell you something.”

My own son Samuel has augmentative communication, and we’ve worked extremely hard to get him access to that. I also did a film on restraint and seclusion, which people can watch on the site. It was funded through a big grant from TASH. The stories are painful—kids who didn’t have access to communication were abused for years because they couldn’t express what they needed or tell anyone they were being restrained or secluded.

Tim Villegas
Everything you’re bringing up is so important, especially for educators to understand. There are so many things behind the way a student behaves. Also, something we assume when we talk about Functional Behavior Assessments or analyzing behavior is that behavior is negative. But it’s not only negative or only positive—it’s a mixture. Just like you or I, and what we do and what we’re motivated by, it’s never all one thing. Meanings overlap. It’s a much more complicated issue, especially when you have students who are nonverbal. If they don’t have a functional communication system, you’re going to see a lot of things interpreted as negative.

I’m not sure if this ever comes up in the film or mini-films, but health is also a huge reason for someone to “act out.” If you have an ear infection, pain in your body, headaches—and no way to communicate—that’s going to affect behavior. And then you get labeled as a bad kid.

Dan Habib
Exactly. You’re hitting on some really important points. It reminds me of two comments that inspired me to do this project.

One was from a mom in Buffalo, New York. She had a child with emotional and behavioral disabilities. If her son didn’t have his shoes tied a certain way, the right pants, the right food in the right texture and order—he would blow up. She worked so hard every day to meet his needs and get him out the door. Some days, he’d still have challenging behavior, and she’d get judged as a bad mom. She was crying, saying, “They don’t even know what I do just to get my kid out the door every day.”

The second was from a kid at a screening. He said, “Just to get through every day of school, people have no idea what it takes—how much concentration, how much patience, how hard it is.” He said school was overwhelming.

Every time I go into my son Samuel’s middle school, I think, “Wow, this place is completely overwhelming.” And yet we expect our kids to never get angry or impulsive, when we as adults do that all the time. Sometimes we even yell at our partners or kids. We forget that kids are human too.

Tim Villegas
A couple more things before we wrap up our conversation. First, I’d like for you to talk about what Positive Behavior Intervention Supports really is—and maybe give an example of what it’s not. Usually, when I talk to people about applied behavior analysis or positive behavior support, they have a preconceived idea of what that is. It’s often very clinical—like students are lab rats, being poked and prodded to see what kind of behaviors come out. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Dan Habib
Sure, I’d be happy to. Let me just say, I’m a filmmaker, so I often like to communicate through film. I want to point you to one more mini-film on our website called Education Revolution at Somersworth High School. It’s a 13-minute film that shows how the school transformed through Positive Behavioral Supports. It really puts a picture on what PBIS looks and feels like in a school.

So, what is PBIS? First, Positive Behavioral Support is the overall principle of the approach we’ve been talking about. Positive Behavioral Interventions and Supports (PBIS) is a specific framework developed over decades at the federal level and supported by a National Technical Assistance Center. People can learn more at pbis.org.

PBIS is not a packaged curriculum or something you download or buy. It’s not a specific intervention. It’s a framework—a decision-making framework that guides a school in selecting, integrating, and implementing best practices. Things like Universal Design for Learning, differentiated instruction, and augmentative communication can all fall under the PBIS umbrella.

It’s almost the polar opposite of zero-tolerance, punitive policies that are reactive to behavior. Those approaches—suspending or expelling kids—have no evidence of working. They don’t change behavior, don’t address the root causes, and don’t create safer schools.

PBIS, on the other hand, has a tremendous amount of research behind it. It focuses on incentivizing good behavior rather than just punishing bad behavior. That doesn’t mean kids are let off the hook—there are still consequences—but those consequences are unified and consistently applied across the school.

It’s positive. It’s behavioral—meaning it understands that behavior is a form of communication. It’s about interventions—delivering what kids need. For a typical kid, that might just be a healthy school environment and good instruction. For someone like Kelsey, it might mean person-centered planning or wraparound services. And it’s about supports—what does a kid need to be successful?

I worry that with the Common Core, which I think is a good idea in principle, we’re raising the bar without providing the supports kids need to meet it. If we don’t deliver the right supports, kids will fall through the cracks.

I’ve seen PBIS work as an organizing framework at the school level. It helps schools have the kinds of strategic conversations they need to run a complex system like a school.

Tim Villegas
That’s a good point about the Common Core. A lot of educators are having a hard time wrapping their minds around what it is. I’d like to know what you think about how PBIS can be implemented nationwide. You’ve talked before about how inclusion and PBIS are only practiced in pockets around the country—certain states, certain counties. How do we get PBIS, Universal Design, and differentiated instruction into more schools?

Dan Habib
That’s a great question. Several thoughts come to mind.

First, we need to educate leaders at the state and federal levels. Many at the federal level already get this—I’ve had a chance to talk to a lot of them. At the state level, we need to demonstrate the evidence that these approaches improve student achievement. That’s what it often comes down to—academic success.

We also need to show that these approaches address disparities—economic, racial, and otherwise—in terms of which kids are being served well and which are not.

I often ask audiences when I speak: “When you think about who you are today—not just your job, but your relationships, hobbies, passions—what had a bigger influence: the academic experience of school or the social-emotional experience?” And the answer is almost always overwhelmingly social-emotional—like 98%.

Yet in schools, we spend 90% of our time focused on academics. We need to look more holistically at our kids and who we want them to become. Focusing on behavior is a healthy way to support kids and help them succeed. They need to learn social and emotional skills to navigate life.

There are some exciting efforts to scale up these practices. I’m fortunate to be involved in one of them. A major grant called SWIFT (Schoolwide Integrated Framework for Transformation) was awarded—$25 million from the federal government—to create a National Technical Assistance Center. The University of Kansas got the grant, and the Institute on Disability at UNH, where I work, is one of the subcontractors.

I’m part of a five-year grant to do films around the country at six “knowledge development sites”—some of the most amazing inclusive public schools in the country. By studying them, filming them, and educating others, we’re helping states scale up these practices. It’s very exciting. We see it as the best hope we have right now to show that these approaches can be scaled up nationally.

Tim Villegas
I’m very hopeful too. I’m hoping that at the end of the five years, we’ll have some really concrete data—not only data, but also examples, like what you’re doing with film.

Dan Habib
Exactly. It’s about documentation and inspiration. We already have a lot of implementation happening, and we’re building on that.

This is a democracy. We can’t dictate what every community does. But we can show what the research and evidence say is working. We can educate people and give them tools. I also believe in the power of film. Some people are convinced by data, but most want to see what it looks like. That’s why I feel so fortunate to do the work I do.

One more thing—we named the film Who Cares About Kelsey because, on one hand, you could say, “Who the hell cares about Kelsey?” She comes from a rough family, she’s probably going to drop out—why bother?

But as you go through the film, you see who cares about Kelsey: her mentor, Kevin Plummer; her principal; a few family members in their own complicated way; and ultimately, Kelsey herself. That’s what makes the difference.

So we launched a campaign called “I Care By…” What are you doing in your everyday life to show you care about kids who are struggling? We offer simple suggestions for educators, family members, and youth to make a difference. We’re launching that at the end of September at icareby.org. It uses film to teach these lessons.

Tim Villegas
Excellent. Thank you for the conversation. I have one more quick question—very important. Are the Red Sox going to win the World Series?

Dan Habib
I sure hope so! We just watched them tonight—they’re in the American League Championship Series. We’re big fans in this family. I remember years ago when they played the Yankees and came back from three games down. I was so tired, but I loved every minute of it. How about you? Are you rooting for them?

Tim Villegas
Well, no—I’m a Los Angeles Dodgers fan. I still have the 1988 World Series Kirk Gibson home run ingrained in my brain.

Dan Habib
We’re hoping for a Pirates–Red Sox World Series. No offense, but we think that would be fun.

Tim Villegas
That would be pretty interesting. I definitely have my bias. Since I’m in the Atlanta area, I have a special place in my heart for the Braves. But I grew up in Los Angeles, so that’s my team.

Dan Habib
Well, we might be rooting against each other soon!

Tim Villegas
Thanks so much for your time.

Tim Villegas (closing)
That concludes this edition of the Think Inclusive Podcast. For more information about Dan Habib and the film Who Cares About Kelsey, visit whocaresaboutkelsey.com. You can watch the mini-films, find statistics and articles about the issues brought up in the film, find out when the film will be broadcast in your area, and even host your own screening.

You can also follow us on Twitter at @WCAKelsey. Remember, you can always find us on Twitter at @think_inclusive or on the web at thinkinclusive.us.

Today’s show was produced by myself, talking into USB headphones using a newly refurbished MacBook Pro, GarageBand, and a Skype account. Bumper music by Jose Galvez with the song “Press,” available on iTunes.

You can subscribe to the Think Inclusive Podcast via the iTunes Music Store or PodOmatic—the largest community of independent podcasters on the planet.

From Marietta, Georgia, please join us again on the Think Inclusive Podcast. Thanks for your time and attention.