Empowering Advocacy with AI: Charmaine Thaner’s Insights 

Tim Villegas:  

Hi, friends. This is Think Inclusive. I’m Tim Villegas. My guest on today’s podcast is Charmaine Thaner, a trusted advocate for families navigating the IEP process. As a mom to a son with Down syndrome and a teacher with 30 years of experience, she understands both the challenges parents face and how to create real change. 

Charmaine breaks things down into simple, actionable steps, helping parents feel confident and capable. Passionate about inclusion, she works to create schools where every child belongs. Her relatable approach inspires parents to advocate for the education their children deserve. 

Now, you may be asking yourself, why does Tim sound so weird? That’s because what you’re hearing is an AI-generated clone of my voice. No, I didn’t get sucked into my computer—but I wanted to switch things up a bit, given our topic today is AI. 

In this episode of the Think Inclusive Podcast, I speak with Charmaine Thaner about how AI tools can empower parents and educators. Charmaine shares how she uses tools like ChatGPT to write emails, summarize meetings, and prepare for school board presentations—making advocacy clearer and less stressful. 

We explore the power of custom GPTs—AI tailored to reflect personal values and goals—and how Charmaine integrates negotiation techniques from Chris Voss to foster more productive conversations with educators. She also highlights AI’s role in legislative advocacy, helping parents craft personalized messages to lawmakers. 

Throughout, Charmaine emphasizes that while AI is a powerful support tool, authentic human connection remains at the heart of advocacy. If you’re curious about using AI in your advocacy journey, Charmaine invites you to join her Connecting for Change group for coaching and access to custom tools. 

Before we get into my conversation with Charmaine, I want to tell you about our sponsor for this season: IXL. IXL is a fantastic all-in-one platform designed for K–12 education. It helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress seamlessly. Imagine having a tool that simplifies what usually requires dozens of different resources. That’s IXL. 

As students practice, IXL adapts to their individual needs, ensuring they’re both supported and challenged. Plus, each learner receives a personalized learning plan to effectively address any knowledge gaps. Interested in learning more? Visit https://ixl.com/inclusive. 

Alright, after a short break, we’ll get into my conversation with Charmaine Thaner. Catch you on the other side. 

Tim Villegas: 

And I need to get my questions back up. How are you doing? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Well, you know, given all the national stress, it’s like—oh my gosh. 

Tim Villegas: 

It’s been stressful, man. Really stressful. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Yes. And I can imagine, as a director of communications in this time, it’s like—oh my. 

Tim Villegas: 

Yeah. You know, that’s interesting because I think I’ve never been so vocal in my beliefs. That’s a personal choice, but also, as an organization, we’ve had to figure out how to stay nonpartisan. It feels like just telling the truth actively goes against this administration. We’re not even spinning anything. So yeah, we’ve made a choice to offer the best information we can, and I’ve definitely chosen to be more vocal. 

Anyway, let me get us started. Charmaine Thaner, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast. I think I’m going to leave all that stuff in at the beginning—because why not? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Yeah, it’s true, right? It’s real life. 

Tim Villegas: 

Exactly. Well, I’ve been wanting to have you on to talk about artificial intelligence and its connection to inclusive education advocacy for a while. I didn’t even realize that was a thing—you made it a thing. So let’s start there. How did this even start to happen for you? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

It’s interesting. Usually, when I learn something new—even if it’s not directly connected to advocacy or inclusive education—I always think, “How could I use this in my advocacy?” I started using AI before ChatGPT, back when it was called Jasper or Jarvis. It was early days for consumer AI, and I wasn’t sure what to do with it. 

But when ChatGPT came out, I saw the potential. I started playing with it, learning how to “season” your chat or AI tool. I learned about prompt engineering and how important it is to provide context. Otherwise, you get a generic response, which isn’t helpful for advocates or parents. 

I get a lot of late-night questions from parents—texts like, “I have to respond to this email, but I can’t sleep because I don’t know what to say.” Email felt like an easy entry point for parents to understand how AI could help them without being afraid of it. 

So I took an old digital handout I had for parents about writing emails and turned it into a prompt for ChatGPT. It’s based on Dr. Marshall Rosenberg’s Nonviolent Communication Framework. I added steps like “start with a positive” and “end with a positive.” When you give ChatGPT a good prompt like that, it’s amazing. 

But it still starts with us as humans. You get an email, you want to respond, and maybe you type out a raw, emotional draft late at night. Then you plug that into ChatGPT with the right prompt, and it rewrites it to be more conversational—or more assertive, if that’s what you want. It’s perfect for parents. 

Tim Villegas: 

That is so relatable. As a communications director, I use AI all the time. I don’t always have it write emails for me, but I do use it to check grammar and tone. 

I want to get into the nuts and bolts of what you’re saying. Let me give you a quick example that might resonate with how you’re helping people use AI. 

I use AI extensively in our podcast production. Over the last few months, I’ve been feeding raw transcripts into AI—specifically Copilot, since we’re a Microsoft organization. It cleans up the transcript, removes filler words, checks spelling, and makes it more readable. That’s the point of the transcript—to make it readable. 

Then I scan it to make sure it reads correctly and contains the right information. After that, I can ask questions about the episode, and it gives me answers based on the context. It’s incredibly helpful. Even though I did the interview and remember it, having that searchable context is powerful. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Magical, right? It’s amazing—and it does it in just a few minutes. 

Tim Villegas: 

Exactly. How much manual time would that have taken? Scrubbing through a podcast, deleting words—it’s a lot. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

I use a similar process for my Facebook Lives. I use Descript, a video editor that removes filler words and long pauses. It’s great. 

But it’s not just for individual advocacy. We can use AI to help us prepare for school board meetings too. Say you want to make a two- or three-minute statement. You can type out everything you want to say, and if it’s too long—say six minutes—you can ask AI to cut it down to two minutes while keeping the key points. 

It always starts with human input. Then, after AI gives you a draft, you go back and tweak it. I tell parents: you have to course-correct with AI. It might be on the right track, but you can guide it to be more pointed or more specific to your situation. 

Tim Villegas: 

Could you walk us through how a parent or educator might get started using AI for advocacy? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

I recommend starting with the free version of ChatGPT. It’s powerful. I use the $20/month version, which is like hiring a virtual assistant. 

I mention ChatGPT because it’s what I use most, but Claude is also great—some say it writes better. Poe is another option, and it has a UDL-like framework that I love. Each tool has its strengths, but for most parents, ChatGPT works well. 

What’s great about the free version is that you can use custom GPTs. I’ve developed several for parents in our Connecting for Change community. These custom GPTs reduce the need for complex prompt engineering. 

For example, my email custom GPT starts by asking questions like: “What’s the situation?” “What happened?” “Who are you writing to?” “Do you want a formal or conversational tone?” It gathers context so you don’t have to figure out how much to say. 

When I work with parents now, I don’t use long prompts anymore. It’s not necessary. 

Tim Villegas: 

Well, I’ve never used a custom GPT, and I didn’t realize that was something you could do with the free version. So what I’m hearing is that you can create something very targeted to your situation, and the more information you give it, the more helpful it becomes. It holds that context so you can keep asking questions within that framework, right? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Yes, exactly. There’s a whole other part about what stays in memory and all that, but for parents just starting out, you don’t need to worry about the technical stuff. 

The other thing I was thinking about when you mentioned your podcast transcripts—my newest custom GPT is based on using Otter.ai to record meetings. Otter gives you an audio file, a written transcript, and timestamps. The timestamps are key. If you use another tool, just make sure it includes them. 

Otter also gives a summary, but I haven’t been impressed with it. It often misses big things. So I started taking the transcript and putting it into ChatGPT. When I first create a custom GPT, I go through a long prompt because that becomes part of the backend instructions. 

I started by telling it, “You’re an experienced special education advocate. You’re used to reading transcripts and summarizing them.” I gave it a role to play. Then I asked it to summarize the important points and decisions made in the meeting. 

It did a decent job, but some key points were missing. That’s when I realized I needed to course-correct. I asked, “How can I make my instructions more clear?” ChatGPT told me not to use the word “summary” because it compresses the dialogue. Instead, it said to use the word “analyze.” 

Tim Villegas: 

Oh, okay. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

I changed that one word, and I got the best, most detailed analysis of the meeting—what happened, what decisions were made. Then I asked it to categorize the content, and it did that too. 

At the end, ChatGPT even asked, “Do you want me to make this into a checklist for the next meeting?” I was like, “Really? I love a checklist!” 

Tim Villegas: 

That’s amazing. I’m just imagining how powerful this could be. If you had a custom GPT that you used throughout your child’s educational journey, and you fed it every IEP transcript, you could ask it, “Didn’t we talk about this around this date?” and it would pull it up. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Yes! And in ChatGPT—and I’m sure in other tools too—you can do a word search. If you’ve saved a lot of conversations, you can type in keywords and it’ll pull up all the relevant chats. There’s also a “projects” feature, which is like a folder. You can create a project folder for your child and keep all those conversations in one place. 

Tim Villegas: 

Wow. What kind of feedback have you gotten from parents using this tool? Any success stories? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Yes, I go back to the beginning with the email tool. There’s one parent in our Connecting for Change group who said it was the best thing since sliced bread. I probably need a more modern metaphor! 

Tim Villegas: 

Sliced bread still works. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

True! Before we used ChatGPT, I helped her craft emails as a kind of ghostwriter because she felt insecure about expressing herself. Then I encouraged her to try writing them herself, and I’d review them. It was like scaffolding. 

When we started using the custom GPT, she blossomed. It was so fun to see. The impact it had on the school staff was huge—she was clear about what was going well, what she wanted to continue, and what her concerns were. She gave specific examples. 

Another thing I love about ChatGPT is that it can help you phrase questions in a way that doesn’t make teachers or administrators feel defensive. That’s part of the backend instructions I give my GPTs. 

Can I tell you who one of my best resources is for my GPT? 

Tim Villegas: 

Yes, please! 

Charmaine Thaner: 

It’s someone who’s not even in the advocacy field. 

Tim Villegas: 

Okay. Okay. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

He’s written a book—probably more than one—and has a podcast. He’s well known. The book is called Never Split the Difference, and the author is a former FBI negotiator named Chris Voss. 

Tim Villegas: 

Wow. Okay. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

When I found him, it was like discovering another world. I thought, “How can I use this in my advocacy?” He talks about tactical empathy, asking the right questions, and aiming to get to a “no” instead of a “yes.” When I create a custom GPT, I include what I’ve learned from Chris Voss’s techniques. That way, the GPT has a flavor of his voice. And if it doesn’t come out strong enough, I’ll say, “Rewrite this in a stronger voice using Chris’s style.” That’s a tip you can use today. 

Tim Villegas: 

That’s amazing. I’ve never heard of Chris Voss. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Oh, you’ll love him. One of the best questions I learned from him has saved me over $500. He suggests asking, “Would it be a ridiculous idea for us to look at how UDL could really make a difference in the classroom?” 

Tim Villegas: 

Interesting. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

When you phrase it that way—“Would it be a ridiculous idea?”—most people will say, “No, it wouldn’t be.” Chris Voss explains why you want people to say “no” instead of “yes.” It’s a fascinating shift from traditional marketing. 

Here’s how it saved me money: I forgot to unsubscribe from something that cost $500 a month. On the day of the deadline, I emailed the person and asked, “Would it be a ridiculous idea for me to get a refund for this month? I really meant to cancel.” She replied, “No, that’s not a ridiculous idea. I’ll do it right now.” 

Tim Villegas: 

Wow. So Chris Voss became your hero. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Absolutely. I’ve had other parents use that question too—for refunds, in IEP meetings, and more. 

Tim Villegas: 

That is so fascinating. Can you explain why that phrasing—“Would it be a ridiculous idea…”—works so well? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Well, like I said, it’s not confrontational. Of course, tone matters—you don’t want to sound sarcastic. Your tone and body language are important. But I think it catches people off guard in a good way. It’s like a pattern interrupt. It opens up the conversation and shifts it in a new direction. 

In IEP meetings, it opens up possibilities. It’s not just about one solution—it’s about exploring all the ways we can reach our goal. 

Tim Villegas: 

Right. That’s great. I’m definitely going to look more into that and check out his podcast. We’ll put it in the show notes. 

I’ve been wanting to ask you about inclusive education advocacy. Do you include information about inclusive education—or even IDEA law—when crafting arguments in your custom GPTs? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

I haven’t used the law much yet, but I’m starting to explore more technical applications. For example, could a custom GPT help parents write state complaints? 

At the COPAA conference, an attorney and I started building one. It’s not finished yet, but it’s in progress. You can upload up to 20 knowledge files into a custom GPT. I always include files with my values, my definitions of inclusive education and UDL, and more. 

Because ChatGPT pulls from the internet, I don’t want it using someone else’s definition of inclusive education. I want it to reflect what I believe and what I want it to be responsible to. 

Tim Villegas: 

Yeah, that makes sense. It could get problematic if the definitions don’t align. So you’re creating your own knowledge files. I guess you could also use outside resources and tailor them to a specific lens. 

Have you explored using this for strategies for inclusion? Like co-teaching, adapting lessons, or defining inclusion? I’m thinking about how this could help when partnering with school districts. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

That would be really cool for your team to do. I don’t know when this will air, but already I’m taking two classes on building AI agents—which are a step above custom GPTs. 

I want to keep things simple for parents just entering the AI world, but there’s so much potential. For example, I created a GPT called “The Belief Shifter.” Its purpose is to challenge outdated, limiting beliefs and help people see new perspectives. 

That one takes longer to work through. Unlike the email GPT, which is quick and straightforward, this one is about mindset. That’s a huge part of getting people to be open to doing things differently. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

The “Belief Shifter” GPT is designed to help people challenge outdated or limiting beliefs. It’s not as quick as the email GPT—it takes more time to work through—but it’s powerful. Changing mindset is a huge part of getting people to be open to doing things differently. 

It’s based on neurolinguistic programming, which is a framework for helping people see things from another perspective. That’s one of the knowledge files I include in that GPT. 

Another thing I love about ChatGPT is how it can format information in different ways. I really like tables—they’re clean and easy to read. So instead of a long narrative, you can ask ChatGPT to turn strategies, definitions, and examples into a table. Then you can copy it into a spreadsheet or turn it into a PDF. That’s great for someone in communications like you. 

Tim Villegas: 

The sky’s the limit. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Exactly. You could even take a transcript and say, “Make three social media posts,” or “Create two carousel posts,” and it will do it for you. 

Tim Villegas: 

Yeah. You’re giving me a lot to think about, Charmaine. I’m so thankful for this conversation. Just hold on one second—my son just texted me. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Alright. You know, the last time I was on your podcast—do you remember that? 

Tim Villegas: 

I do. Didn’t I get a text then too? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Yes, from your daughter. There was a lockdown at her school. 

Tim Villegas: 

Oh my gosh, you’re right. That was scary. Fortunately, my kids are on spring break this week. My son was just letting me know he’s headed out the door—nothing like that this time. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Good to hear. 

Tim Villegas: 

So, I just finished a podcast series called Shell Game. The journalist created an AI voice agent of himself. He fed it audio and knowledge files about himself and hooked it up to his phone. When telemarketers called, the AI chatbot would talk to them. It even got into existential topics like cloning yourself. It’s amazing how far we’ve come—and where we’ll be in one, two, or five years. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Or even one or two months! Just yesterday, ChatGPT announced they’re increasing memory capacity. I haven’t run out of memory yet, and I use it a lot, but it’s great to see these improvements. 

Speaking of voice agents, I just started using the ChatGPT app on my phone. You can have a verbal conversation with it, and it works just like the desktop version. After you speak, you hit the arrow button, and ChatGPT responds. The conversation is saved in your browser too. 

I think about parents late at night who can’t sleep. Instead of getting up to type, they can talk to ChatGPT. It can be like a therapist. You talk, and it says, “You’re brilliant. Would you like help turning this into a strategy for tomorrow’s meeting?” And of course, you say, “Yes, ChatGPT.” And it does it. 

Tim Villegas: 

That’s amazing—just leveraging all these tools for advocacy. I’m trying to think—what am I not asking? What questions should I be asking? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

One thing that comes to mind is how we’re now getting scripts to call or email legislators. That’s great, but you can take it further. Take a screenshot of the script—say from Five Calls—and upload it to ChatGPT. Ask it to extract the text, then personalize it by inserting your own story. That makes the message more powerful. 

It’s not just for individual advocacy or school board meetings. You can use it for state and national advocacy too. If you work for a parent support group, you can take a news release and ask ChatGPT to rewrite it as bullet points for a newsletter. There are so many ways to use it. 

Tim Villegas: 

Those are fantastic ideas. And I just want to reiterate how much mental load this takes off. Going through a transcript line by line, summarizing an episode, finding key points—it’s not that I can’t do it, but using this tool frees me up to do other things. It’s a huge stress relief for parents. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Absolutely. It’s a huge stress relief and a confidence booster. Parents walk into meetings feeling prepared. They’ve got their checklist, their notes—everything ChatGPT helped them create. That confidence really grows when you use it. 

Tim Villegas: 

You also have a course or class to help parents use these tools, right? Where can people find that? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Yes! It’s called Connecting for Change. It’s a private monthly membership group for parents. We offer individual and small group coaching, and we have at least one live session each week. One of those sessions each month is dedicated to AI—how to use new tools or expand on what we already have. 

The custom GPTs are available within the group. That was an intentional decision. I want to emphasize that while the tools are powerful, we still need human connection. Parents supporting each other is just as important. So the GPTs live inside that community. 

Tim Villegas: 

And people can find that on your website? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

The best place to go is http://iep.today/charmaine. That has my email, social media, and everything else. 

Tim Villegas: 

Perfect. We’ll include that in the show notes. This has been fantastic. I’m sure everyone’s brain is buzzing with ideas on how to use AI. 

Any final thoughts for parents or educators? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Yes. I often talk about the art of advocacy. And now, I talk about the art of AI advocacy. At the center of that is the parent’s heart. AI needs to know your values, your voice, your child’s voice. That’s when it becomes truly powerful—when it reflects who you are and helps you make a real impact on your child’s education. 

Tim Villegas: 

Absolutely. Thank you so much for spending time with me. 

Are you up for a mystery question? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Oh yes! My husband’s mystery question is always, “What are the winning lottery numbers?” 

Tim Villegas: 

Nope, not that one. These mystery questions are written by my 12-year-old. I’ve got a stack of cards here. Let’s pick one at random. 

Here’s your question: If you had a TV show, what would it be called and why? 

Charmaine Thaner: 

I love it! Well, the easy answer is The Art of Advocacy, right? From my Facebook Live to a TV network. 

But personally, I’m trying to be more real. People sometimes say, “Charmaine, you know everything,” or “You seem aloof.” I want to be more authentic with families—not wear a mask of professionalism. So maybe the show would be called Be Real. 

Tim Villegas: 

Be Real. I love that. I’ve thought about this too—not necessarily a TV show, but a network. A channel where people can go to hear from all the voices in inclusive education advocacy. A place where influencers and advocates can share ideas in one space. 

If anyone listening has a lot of money… 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Just don’t go to the highest bidder! 

Tim Villegas: 

Right. We’ve learned a lesson or two about that.  

Tim Villegas: 

That’s right. We’ve got to match the values. But yeah, we should have an inclusive education network—an Inclusive Ed Network. I don’t know exactly what we’d call it, but that would be something. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Student voices, right? 

Tim Villegas: 

Absolutely. Yeah. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

I think of a network like when you go on Netflix or something—like the Home and Garden Channel with all the different shows. We’d need to make sure we include student voices in there too. 

Tim Villegas: 

Exactly. Well, hey, maybe one day. You never know. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

You and I—and AI—we can do it. 

Tim Villegas: 

That’s right. We just need to write some fundraising letters. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Exactly! 

Tim Villegas: 

That’s a whole other thing. Alright, Charmaine Thaner, thank you so much for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast. You’re always welcome, and it’s always fun talking with you. 

Charmaine Thaner: 

Thank you, Tim. Thank you for the warm environment you always create for conversation. 

Tim Villegas: 

I appreciate that. 

That’s all the time we have for this episode of Think Inclusive. Now let’s roll the credits. 

Think Inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. I handle the writing, editing, design, mixing, and mastering. This podcast is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. 

Our original music is by Miles Kredich, with additional tunes by Melod.ie. A big shout-out to our sponsor, IXL. Check them out at https://ixl.com/inclusive. 

We truly appreciate each and every one of you who tunes in. We’d love to hear how you’re using our episodes. Are they part of your teaching toolkit? Are you sharing them with school administrators? Drop me a line at tvillegas@mcie.org and let me know. 

And hey, if you’re still with us this far into the episode, it probably means you love Think Inclusive and the work MCIE is doing. Can I ask a small favor? Help us keep the momentum going by donating at our website, https://mcie.org. Just click the button at the top of the site and chip in $5, $10, or $20. It would mean the world to us—and to the children in the schools and districts we partner with. 

Thanks for your time and attention. And remember: inclusion always works. 

Download the entire unedited transcript here. 

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