Anthony Ianni on Autism, Basketball, and Breaking Barriers ~ 909

Tim Villegas:
Just a couple of weekends ago, I taught an online class for special education candidates about supporting students on the autism spectrum. We talked about a number of things, including what is autism. This is my second time teaching this class, and I repeated something that I thought was really helpful the first time. I had the class read the “About Autism” page from the Autistic Self Advocacy Network. If you don’t know who ASAN is, they are a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization run by and for autistic people. I often point to them as an example of where to look when finding who the autism experts are.

Before we get into our interview with Anthony Ianni, author of Centered: Autism, Basketball, and One Athlete’s Dreams, I wanted to read ASAN’s definition to you. It’s a couple of pages long, but I think it’s worth hearing.

Tim Villegas:
Autism is a developmental disability that affects how we experience the world around us. Autistic people are an important part of the world. Autism is a normal part of life. It makes us who we are. Autism has always existed. Autistic people are born autistic and will be autistic our whole lives. Autism can be diagnosed by a doctor, but you can be autistic even if you don’t have a formal diagnosis. Because of myths around autism, it can be harder for autistic adults, autistic girls, and autistic people of color to get a diagnosis, but anyone can be autistic regardless of race, gender, or age. Autistic people are in every community and we always have been. Autistic people are people of color. Autistic people are immigrants. Autistic people are a part of every religion, every income level, and every age group. Autistic people are women. Autistic people are queer and autistic people are trans. Autistic people are often many of these things at once.

The communities we are a part of and the ways we are treated shape what autism is like for us. There is no one way to be autistic. Some autistic people can speak and some autistic people need to communicate in other ways. Some autistic people also have intellectual disabilities and some autistic people don’t. Some autistic people need a lot of help in their day-to-day lives, and some autistic people only need a little help. All of these people are autistic because there is no right or wrong way to be autistic. All of us experience autism differently, but we all contribute to the world in meaningful ways. We all deserve understanding and acceptance.

Tim Villegas:
Every autistic person experiences autism differently, but there are some things that many of us have in common.

Number one, we think differently. We may have very strong interests in things other people don’t understand or seem to care about. We might be great problem solvers or pay close attention to detail. It might take us longer to think about things. We might have trouble with executive functioning, like figuring out how to start and finish a task, moving on to a new task, or making decisions. Routines are important for many autistic people. It can be hard for us to deal with surprises or unexpected changes. When we get overwhelmed, we might not be able to process our thoughts, feelings, and surroundings, which can make us lose control of our body.

Number two, we process our senses differently. We might be extra sensitive to things like bright lights or loud sounds. We might have trouble understanding what we hear or what our senses tell us. We might not notice if we are in pain or hungry. We might do the same movement over and over again. This is called stimming and it helps us regulate our senses. For example, we might rock back and forth, play with our hands, or hum.

Number three, we move differently. We might have trouble with fine motor skills or coordination. It can feel like our minds and bodies are disconnected. It can be hard for us to start or stop moving. Speech can be extra hard because it requires a lot of coordination. We might not be able to control how loud our voices are, or we might not be able to speak at all even though we can understand what other people say.

Number four, we communicate differently. We might talk using echolalia, repeating things we have heard before, or by scripting out what we want to say. Some autistic people use augmentative and alternative communication or AAC to communicate. For example, we may communicate by typing on a computer, spelling on a letter board, or pointing to pictures on an iPad. Some people may also communicate with behavior or the way we act. Not every autistic person can talk, but we all have important things to say.

Number five, we socialize differently. Some of us might not understand or follow social rules that non-autistic people made up. We might be more direct than other people. Eye contact might make us uncomfortable. We might have a hard time controlling our body language or facial expressions, which can confuse non-autistic people or make it hard to socialize. Some of us might not be able to guess how people feel. This doesn’t mean that we don’t care how people feel. We just need people to tell us how they feel so we don’t have to guess. Some autistic people are extra sensitive to other people’s feelings.

Number six, we might need help with daily living. It can take a lot of energy to live in a society built for non-autistic people. We may not have the energy to do some things in our daily lives or parts of being autistic can make doing those things too hard. We may need help with things like cooking, doing our jobs, or going out. We might be able to do things on our own sometimes, but need help other times. We might need to take more breaks so we can recover our energy.

Not every autistic person will relate to all these things. There are a lot of different ways to be autistic. That is okay. Autism affects how we think, how we communicate, and how we interact with the world. Autistic people are different than non-autistic people. And that’s okay. ASAN advocates for a world where all autistic people have equal access, rights, and opportunities. Nothing about us without us.

Tim Villegas:
ASAN also has a great book called Welcome to the Autism Community. Check it out if you get the chance. And before we get into Anthony Ianni’s interview, I’m going to tell you something that I told my students a couple weeks ago, and it really comes from this ASAN definition: All autistic people deserve understanding and acceptance.

Tim Villegas:
My name is Tim Villegas, and you are listening to the Think Inclusive podcast presented by MCIE. This podcast exists to build bridges between families, educators, and disability rights advocates to create a shared understanding of inclusive education and what inclusion looks like in the real world. To find out more about who we are and what we do, check us out at https://www.thinkinclusive.us/ or on the socials—Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. Also, take our podcast listener survey. Your responses will help us develop a better podcast experience. Go to https://us7.list-manage.com/survey?u=cb5e89e4d9c893d0eb671b3d7&id=d54594b86b to submit your responses. We appreciate it.

Today on the podcast, we talk to Anthony Ianni, the first autistic Division I college basketball player and author of the book Centered. We talked about what it was like growing up not knowing about his autism diagnosis until high school, playing for the Michigan State basketball team, and what he would tell young people on the autism spectrum about following their dreams. Thanks so much for listening. I’m glad you’re here. And now, our interview with Anthony Ianni.

Tim Villegas:
Okay. So today on the Think Inclusive podcast, I have Anthony Ianni, who is the author of the book Centered: Autism, Basketball, and One Athlete’s Dreams. He is a former basketball star for the Michigan State Spartans. I cannot wait to talk to you about that. So welcome to the podcast, Anthony.

Anthony Ianni:
Thank you very much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Tim Villegas:
So why don’t you just introduce yourself to our audience? Our audience is mostly educators—some special education teachers, some general education teachers. We have principals and district administrators that listen, and then we also have families of children with disabilities. So in case no one knows who you are, go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners.

Anthony Ianni:
Absolutely. So I’m Anthony Ianni. I am a current national motivational speaker and autism self-advocate. A little bit about my background: When I was four years old, I was diagnosed with pervasive developmental disorder, which is part of the autism spectrum. And at age five, a group of doctors and professionals told me that because I have autism, I would barely graduate from high school, never go to college, never be an athlete, and likely end up in a group institution with other autistic individuals just like myself for the rest of my life.

I wasn’t told this until going into my freshman year of high school. So that kind of became my motivation to go and prove those people and the other doubters or naysayers in my life wrong. I had to work hard at everything—whether it was school, basketball, or my social life especially. And I had a lot of support from not just my family, but from my teammates, my coaches, my teachers, and my friends.

I ended up graduating from high school in 2007, where I then went on to Grand Valley State University for two years on a full scholarship for basketball. It didn’t quite work out for me there, so I decided to leave Grand Valley State to fulfill my lifelong dream, which was to play for a certain coach at a certain university.

Anthony Ianni:
I ended up leaving to go play for Coach Izzo and the Michigan State Spartans, where I was a walk-on for two years. My senior year, Coach Izzo awarded me a full-ride scholarship. I was part of two Big Ten championship teams, the team that won the Big Ten tournament title, and the team that went to a Final Four. I played with a great group of guys who I’m proud to call my brothers to this day.

During my time at Michigan State, I actually became the NCAA’s first Division I college basketball player with an autism diagnosis at that time. I’m still proud of that title to this day. I also got my bachelor’s degree in sociology from Michigan State, which is social science.

Now, I’ve been doing motivational speaking for the last nine years—whether that’s going into schools, talking to grades three through twelve, doing autism conferences and events, speaking to sports teams, universities—you name it. That’s kind of me. I’m also a husband and father to two beautiful, handsome sons. I’ve got a six-year-old named Knox and a three-year-old named Nash. So yeah, I stay pretty busy, but that’s me in a nutshell.

Tim Villegas:
Awesome. Awesome. So are your sons named after basketball players? Just curious.

Anthony Ianni:
No. Actually, a lot of my friends and even some of my high school players—I help coach girls’ basketball here in Livonia—when Knox was born, everybody thought it was connected to Knoxville, Tennessee. But no, my wife got the name from Dead Poets Society. One of the characters is named Knox, and she was a big fan of it.

As for Nash, we always talked about that name for our firstborn, but we went with Knox first. We were always big fans of Nash, so when our second son was born, we used it. After Nash was born, some of my basketball players were joking, saying, “Knoxville and Nashville—you’re going to name your third kid Louis after Louisville?” I get that question all the time, but we just wanted names that not a lot of people have heard of or used.

I love being a dad, though. It’s a lot of work, but I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

Tim Villegas:
Awesome. Let’s talk about your book first. Why did you want to write it? You have a fantastic story—meeting Tom Izzo, deciding from the very beginning that this was your dream. But now, after basketball and as a father and motivational speaker, what was the reason behind writing the book?

Anthony Ianni:
For multiple reasons. I wanted to educate people more about what autism is because there are a lot of folks who see me speak and then assume, “How is he on the autism spectrum? He looks like a normal person.” I’ve told people about my background—being very black and white, struggling with sarcasm, idioms, and jokes as a kid. I had a tough time with fire drills, loud noises, and crowd noise at Michigan State games. It was too much sensory overload for me.

I wanted people to read about that. I wanted people who aren’t affected by autism to read my story and get hope and inspiration if they’re going through tough times. And I wanted to show that this book isn’t just about Michigan State. It’s more than that. Like Rudy wasn’t just about Notre Dame, and Glory Road wasn’t just about Texas Western. There are messages behind those stories, and it’s the same with my book.

Anthony Ianni:
We did a few things in the book that I don’t think a lot of people would do. For example, we put some of my IEP evaluations in there. My co-author, Rob Keys, asked me if I wanted to include them. At first, I hesitated because there’s a lot of personal stuff in those evaluations—things I wasn’t proud of or things that were out of my control because I was six years old.

But Rob said something that stuck with me: “Don’t do what’s best for you as the author. Do what’s best for your readers.” Educators, professionals, students, and families affected by autism could look at those evaluations and see where I was in kindergarten and where I ended up by high school. That perspective could inspire them.

I didn’t even sleep on it—I called Rob back 20 minutes later and said, “Let’s do it.” We wanted to show people the effects autism had on me as a kid and how it still affects me today. Overall, we wanted to educate people and give them hope and inspiration.

Tim Villegas:
Yeah, I think it comes across in a powerful way. I don’t know if you know this about me, but I was a special education teacher for 16 years in public schools. I wrote those reports, so when I saw the excerpts in your book, it reminded me of what those reports really mean. They tell a story.

There’s something you said earlier—you go speak and people ask, “Do you really have autism?” What’s your reaction to that? Where do you think that comes from?

Anthony Ianni:
I think it’s based on how people perceive me. When people meet me and I tell them I have autism, their reaction is, “How? You don’t seem like it.” They say I don’t have the characteristics they expect. I always ask, “What characteristics are you talking about?” Some even say, “You don’t look like a typical person with autism.” My response: “What is a typical person with autism supposed to look like?”

I’m 6’9”, so people stare at me because of my height. It’s one thing when kids do it, but when adults do, it’s like they’ve never seen a tall person before. Similarly, people have preconceived ideas about autism.

I still struggle with sarcasm and jokes. If I’m in a group chat and my best friend is joking, I can’t always tell. Sitting at a dinner table, I don’t catch jokes well because of the language aspect I struggle with.

When I speak at conferences, I ask, “Before I started speaking, who assumed I didn’t have autism?” About 70% of the room raises their hands. I’m not offended—I get it. But I tell them, “If you spend two or three hours with me, you’ll understand where I’m at on the spectrum.”

That’s another reason I wrote the book. The first nine chapters show what I was like as a kid—what bothered me, what triggered me. When you read that, you understand why I was diagnosed.

Tim Villegas:
You’ve embraced your autistic identity instead of trying to separate yourself from it. Some people feel like they need to “overcome” their disability. Did you ever feel that way?

Anthony Ianni:
No, I never had the mindset that I needed to overcome autism to become who I am. In high school, I had just found out about my diagnosis. I knew I did things differently as a kid, but when my parents told me, it all made sense.

The only thing I focused on in high school was proving every doctor and professional wrong who said I wouldn’t achieve anything because of autism. I wasn’t going to let their words define my future. I wasn’t going to let autism define what I did in life—only I could define that.

I didn’t think about autism on the basketball court or in the classroom. I was reminded of it through accommodations and IEPs, but my goals were clear: graduate, play at Michigan State, win a Big Ten championship, make a Final Four, maybe win a national title.

I didn’t fully embrace being proud of having autism until after I graduated from Michigan State. That’s when I realized I had proved everyone wrong and made history because of autism. I told myself, “Be proud of who you are and what you’re diagnosed with.” If you do that, others will see it and embrace who they are too.

I spoke at a charter academy in Grand Rapids about five years ago. After my presentation, a fifth grader asked me, “Are you proud to have autism? Because I’m not.” He felt alone. I told him, “Yes, I’m proud because autism is part of me. It helped me become who I am and make history.”

When I told him there were over 3.5 million people in the U.S. with autism, his eyes lit up. He said, “There are that many people like me?” That’s why I’m proud to be part of the autism community. That’s why I do what I do—not just for me, but for my family and the community.

Tim Villegas:
If you were talking to a young person on the spectrum, what’s your big message to them?

Anthony Ianni:
Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do something because of autism. If you have dreams or goals, go after them. Autism doesn’t define you—you define yourself.

I’ve met so many kids with autism who want to go to college, graduate, become police officers, athletes—you name it. Here’s an example: The first school I ever spoke at, nine years ago, I got a call from a mom the next day. Her son had been bullied for five years because of autism. After my presentation, the bully apologized.

That young man told his mom he wanted to go to a major university and graduate because of my story. He became a great high school wrestler, graduated from Ferris State University, and now works as a police officer in Ionia County. He didn’t let autism stop him—he embraced it.

That’s my message: Anything you set your mind to is possible. At the end of the day, we don’t just dream our lives—we live them.

Tim Villegas:
So, you’ve embraced your autistic identity as part of who you are, rather than trying to overcome it. Had you always felt that way, or did you ever feel you had to overcome autism to be who you really are?

Anthony Ianni:
No, I didn’t have the mindset that I needed to overcome autism to become who I am today. In high school, I had just found out going into my freshman year what my diagnosis was. I knew I did and said things that were different from everybody else as a kid, so I knew I had a disability, but I didn’t know what it was. When my parents finally told me my diagnosis, it all made sense, but the only thing I was focused on in high school was proving every doctor and professional wrong who said I wasn’t going to achieve anything because of autism.

I wasn’t going to let their words define my future, and I wasn’t going to let autism define what I did with my life, because only one person was going to define that—me. I didn’t think about autism on the basketball court or in the classroom. I was reminded of it through accommodations—test-taking supports, the resource room, my IEPs, and so on.

When I got to college, my goals were to graduate, be at Michigan State, win a Big Ten championship, make a Final Four, and maybe win a national championship. I didn’t fully embrace being proud of having autism until after I graduated from Michigan State. The realization of graduating—and proving every doctor and professional wrong—made me think: you achieved this despite having autism, and you also made history because of being on the spectrum. That’s when I fully embraced it and told myself to be proud of who I am and what I’m diagnosed with. When you do that, other people see it, and some will follow your lead and embrace who they are.

I spoke at a charter academy in Grand Rapids about five years ago and met a fifth grader who asked me, “Are you proud to have autism? Because I’m not. I feel alone. I feel like people can’t relate to what I go through.” I said, “Yes, I’m very proud to have autism, because autism is part of me. It helped me become who I am. It helped me make history.” I mentioned that there are over 3.5 million people in the United States with autism—the number may be higher now—and he was blown away: “There are 3.5 million people in our country like me?” I said yes. I’m proud to be part of a great community—the autism community. That’s a big reason I do what I do as a self-advocate: for my family and for the community.

Tim Villegas:
If you were talking to a young person on the spectrum, what’s your big message to them—whether from the book or your life? What’s the one thing you want to communicate?

Anthony Ianni:
Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do anything in life because of autism. If you have dreams or goals, go get them. Autism doesn’t define you—you define yourself.

I’ve met lots of students with autism who have big dreams: going to college, graduating, becoming police officers, becoming athletes. Here’s an example: the first school I ever presented at was a middle school over nine years ago. I do a lot of anti-bullying presentations. The next day, a mom called to say her son, who has autism, had been bullied for five years by someone who knew he had autism. After my presentation, the bully apologized to her son.

I stayed in touch with the family. Because of my story, her son wanted to go to a major university and graduate. He became a very good high school wrestler, graduated from Ferris State University, and now works for the Ionia County Sheriff’s Department—he became a police officer, which had been his dream. He didn’t let autism get in the way. He embraced it. We still keep in touch, and it’s become a friendship.

That’s why I tell young people that their goals and achievements are possible. We don’t just dream our lives—we live them. That’s a message I’ll always share with a young person with autism.

Tim Villegas:
Where can people find more about you and your book?

Anthony Ianni:
They can go to my website: https://www.anthonyianni.com/. If they’d like to purchase the book, it’s available on https://www.amazon.com/Centered-Autism-Basketball-Athletes-Dreams/dp/1684351537, https://iupress.org/, and Barnes & Noble.

Tim Villegas:
Awesome. Are you on the socials—Facebook, Instagram?

Anthony Ianni:
Oh yeah, I’m on all three. My Twitter handle is https://twitter.com/AI44LYD. Facebook is just my name, https://www.facebook.com/TheGameChanger44. My Instagram is https://www.instagram.com/aigamechanger44/.

Tim Villegas:
Thanks for sharing that. I appreciate your story, and thank you for sharing it with our listeners. Whoever is listening, make sure to check out Centered by Anthony Ianni and his website and socials. Anthony, thank you so much for being on the Think Inclusive podcast. We appreciate your time.

Anthony Ianni:
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Tim Villegas:
That will do it for this episode of the Think Inclusive podcast. Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, the Anchor app, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Have a question or comment? Email us at podcast@thinkinclusive.us. We love to know that you’re listening.

Thank you to patrons Veronica E., Sonya A., Pamela P., Mark C., and Kathleen T. for their continued support of the podcast. When you become a patron, your contribution helps with the cost of audio production, transcription, and promotion of the Think Inclusive podcast—and you could even get a shout out like the fine people we just mentioned. Go to https://www.patreon.com/thinkinclusivepodcast to become a patron today and get access to all our unedited interviews, including our conversation with Anthony. Thank you for helping us equip more people to promote and sustain inclusive education.

This podcast is a production of MCIE, where we envision a society where neighborhood schools welcome all learners and create the foundation for inclusive communities. Learn more at https://www.mcie.org/. We will be back in a few weeks with another Best of Think Inclusive episode, Volume Two, to round out 2021.

Also, you might have noticed a few more bonus episodes recently. That’s because we are now publishing our newsletter, https://weeklyish.substack.com/, as a podcast—along with the video and text versions—just in case you couldn’t get enough inclusionist content.

Thanks for your time and attention, and for listening. Until next time, remember: inclusion always works.