Empowering Paraeducators for Inclusive Education with Renay Marquez ~ 613

Renay Marquez:
Hi, Tim.

Tim Villegas:
Hey, Renay.

Tim Villegas:
You want to try it again?

Renay Marquez:
Hi, you’re on the Think Inclusive Podcast, and this is Renay Marquez with ParaEducate.

Tim Villegas:
Fantastic. Hey everybody, this is Tim Villegas, your host of the Think Inclusive Podcast. I would like to welcome—finally, after all the technical difficulties—Renay Marquez, co-founder of ParaEducate. She is a graduate of the University of Southern California School of Architecture. She has worked as a paraeducator since 2003 with the same district in California. Prior to being a paraeducator, Renay worked for several government agencies and education groups. She currently spends her workdays modifying curriculum, collecting data, and investigating technology for students.

Thank you so much for being on the podcast, Renay.

Renay Marquez:
Thank you for having me, Tim.

Tim Villegas:
Fantastic. We were just talking before we officially started recording. We’ve never had a conversation other than online, so this is fantastic.

Renay Marquez:
Yeah, everything’s always been about trench support teachers, getting curriculum out, or trying to figure out how to branch into that administrative level to make them understand what inclusion is. When ParaEducate started, it was almost the same time as Think Inclusive. We were about the boots on the ground.

Tim Villegas:
Absolutely. I think it’s been great to see how ParaEducate has grown, and now we’re still doing what we’re doing. That’s fantastic.

Many of our listeners and readers are probably familiar with your name, Renay, or ParaEducate, but I’m not sure many know what you do or what ParaEducate does. I know you have some resources and books available and also do training. So why don’t you fill us in on what ParaEducate is, and we can go from there?

Renay Marquez:
In 2011, one of my coworkers left to spend quality time with her then one-year-old son. My department went into a tailspin because we couldn’t replicate Meghan—she’s amazing. Then there was this conversation about, “What happens when Renay goes?” At the time, I had only been a paraeducator for eight years. It wasn’t something I thought I was going to do as a career. It’s not something people think about—it’s like a gap-filler job.

So we started writing this book called ParaEducate to give paraeducators the same footing as everyone else. It gives them some basic background knowledge that a lot of districts just don’t have the time to provide. Some districts don’t even call paraeducators “paraeducators”—some are instructional assistants, some are paraprofessionals. We wanted to get that base level to everyone to help provide inclusive environments for students with disabilities.

We realized we had been creating curriculum and other supports for students with disabilities for almost 10 years. We were able to offer that to a variety of people.

Now we still have our book, ParaEducate, on Amazon—both digitally and in paperback. We have a variety of books primarily for curriculum modification or adaptations to be used as-is in classrooms.

Tim Villegas:
So the book that you originally wrote—and I think I remember when it first came out—something that we said about it was that it assumed an inclusive environment. As you know, inclusive environments in public schools still aren’t that common, especially for students with more complex needs or significant intellectual disabilities. From your vantage point, has it gotten better, maybe in California or with the people you work with? Or is it pretty much the same?

Renay Marquez:
It’s a state-by-state phenomenon, unfortunately. Then it becomes a district-by-district phenomenon. It’s getting better, but what I see a lot on social media are mentions of places—some I won’t name directly—that have horrendous outcomes because they haven’t had inclusive environments. Or there’s such a segregated population for whatever reason. Some of them honestly started out as good ideas, but because of the segregation, things turned out badly. Even in inclusive environments, things can turn out badly. Sometimes it takes bad publicity to get the right things going.

Tim Villegas:
Yeah, I hear that. It always bothers me a little when I hear educators say that inclusion doesn’t work because of the barriers. They’ll say, “Well, the teachers didn’t want to teach the students,” or “The district wasn’t ready,” or “It was implemented badly.” When I hear that, I think, “You never actually had inclusion.” You had something that maybe tried to get there, but because of poor implementation, it failed. I think teachers and district administrators are worried that if they try something like that, there will be negative consequences.

Renay Marquez:
There are small things. I’ll come across a teacher who has successfully included many students, but when tests come up, students get misplaced during the testing process. The teacher might say, “I have 12 kids with IEPs. I don’t know where that student’s test is—it could be in the resource room, the library, their backpack.” And they’re trying to serve 12 different students with 12 different needs. Now they feel like they’re failing. But that’s not a true failure—it’s a hurdle.

Tim Villegas:
Exactly. Inclusion, in the broadest sense—or even if you narrow it down to students spending 80% of their day outside of a segregated or self-contained environment—nothing is going to work perfectly. The assumption that certain students don’t belong because of a particular disability label is the biggest thing we’re trying to push back on. Just because a student has Down syndrome or autism doesn’t mean they need to be in a particular place. That’s not the reason. If we’re talking about special placements, let’s have a different conversation.

Another thing people assume when we say “inclusion” or “inclusive education” is that all students with disabilities are educated in general education classrooms 100% of the time. I think that’s a misunderstanding. I’m not sure how nuanced your take is on this.

Renay Marquez:
It might be because my regular day job has me working with students who fall on the moderate to severe end of the disability spectrum. The majority of my students, based on my case management load, are included in their general education classes with their peers 75% of the day. This includes things like speech and language services pushing into classes. But they’re not necessarily going to push into art or PE classes, which are harder for that kind of dialogue.

Tim Villegas:
Right.

Renay Marquez:
I actually have a student right now that I’m learning to work with, and inclusion looks very different than what we’ve had in a long time. It’s uncomfortable, honestly. But it’s in the student’s best interest long-term. The eventual goal would be more inclusion throughout the student’s day.

Tim Villegas:
Sure. But I think what I’m hearing you say is that you really need to look at the student’s needs.

Renay Marquez:
Well, that’s the whole point of the IEP.

Tim Villegas:
Right. And what I tell people is, I can’t just wave a magic wand and say, “Everyone is in general ed 100% of the day no matter what.” That would be denying kids FAPE. Making that decision and saying that’s how kids are being served goes against the whole idea of an Individualized Education Program. The idea is to look at what the student requires and what services they need. Services are portable and can be provided anywhere, but you also have to consider whether that service will be successful in that specific location. Saying “everyone’s in” or “everyone’s out” is too simplistic. It’s much more nuanced. Like you said, you have to look at what the student requires.

Renay Marquez:
It also matters for the services. I’ve met wonderful APE folks, but getting a student out of their wheelchair—even if it’s appropriate because it’s a physical activity—may not be safe at the moment. The fire alarm could go off, and trying to get that student back into their chair under emergency circumstances may not be a great idea.

Tim Villegas:
Right.

Tim Villegas:
I think we all just need to be very thoughtful about how we provide the service—whatever it is and wherever it is. I take what I hear from parents who talk to me directly, comment on our Facebook posts, or send emails. One of the biggest ways that school districts and educators can build trust with parents is by showing that we are thinking about what is best and not making decisions beforehand. Not only is it illegal to make IEP decisions before a meeting, but just being thoughtful about how we’re going to provide services—whether academic or physical or medical—goes a long way. I’m not sure what the tone is in your area regarding why parents and families get upset at school districts, but I think that tends to be a universal thing.

Renay Marquez:
That’s kind of one of the beauties of being a paraeducator. By default, you’re pretty much insulated from that. You might hear edges of it—parental scuttlebutt—but specifically why, sometimes you just don’t know. There are a lot of reasons parents can be upset. I can’t comment on most of them because I don’t get to have that sort of relationship with the parents. My end is having those conversations between the general ed teacher, the case manager, and, as appropriate, the student.

Renay Marquez:
And I can tell you, if a student only says “yes” to everything you ever ask them, that conversation is going to be very short.

Tim Villegas:
Right.

Renay Marquez:
Occasional “no” is good, but mostly “yes.”

Tim Villegas:
Let’s talk about being prepared to move kids into more inclusive environments. With the students and paraeducators you work with, how do you prepare them to do well? What is needed—whether it’s modifications or help with communication?

Renay Marquez:
I’m fortunate that my district is considered mostly inclusive. Kids have been included since pre-K straight through secondary. So the hurdles of getting students prepared have already been addressed. There are more background things that need to be put in place, like pulling together vocabulary specific to units or classroom language, and providing speech boards or other communication devices for students who need them. That’s probably the primary way we prepare students.

Renay Marquez:
As for preparing paraeducators, we kind of just kick them out the door and say, “You can do it because we believe in you.” We try to pair at least one veteran with someone who hasn’t had much classroom experience so they can learn how to move between students with disabilities and their general ed peers. We’re mindful of students with less obvious disabilities—not to single them out or hover over them. We also teach how to approach conversations with general ed teachers: “What does it mean? What is it going to look like when we have the student do this activity?”

Renay Marquez:
For example, in a science class, all the other kids are making rock cycle CD covers. The student I work with doesn’t have any connection to music, let alone CDs, which no longer exist in their world. So he builds his own rock cycle poster and skips the musical component. It’s about observing students, figuring out what the classroom teacher is asking, and being honest about what the student with a disability can demonstrate.

Tim Villegas:
Right. So I hear a lot about modifications. Is that left up to the educator, or is it in conjunction with the special education case manager?

Renay Marquez:
Ideally, it should be between the classroom teacher and the case manager, with reference to the paraeducator. Even if the classroom teacher is great and wants to get to know the student, ultimately it’s my job to help that student—either through study hall, pull-out, or explaining homework to a parent. Reality has gotten a lot better. More teachers are coming in who can address specific needs of students with disabilities, but they’re better at mild to moderate, not so much the severe end. That’s a challenge. There are fewer students with severe disabilities and more language barriers due to being nonverbal, so exposure is limited.

Tim Villegas:
Right. So coming from the perspective of an inclusive district, do you still see barriers to inclusion even in that setting?

Renay Marquez:
Yes. There’s a lot of organization required from the general ed teacher. It’s not just my job to know all the students I’m responsible for helping academically. We’re also addressing students with emotional and trauma needs at a different rate than we did ten years ago. I don’t know if it’s because we’ve become a trauma-informed district, or if the number of students with those needs is just increasing.

Tim Villegas:
Hmm.

Renay Marquez:
The classroom has become immensely complex. I feel for general ed teachers. It’s easy for me to sit back and armchair quarterback and say, “I wouldn’t do it that way,” but I don’t always have all the information on every student. I only have the information on the students I support.

Tim Villegas:
Do you collaborate with general ed teachers, or is it more with the special ed case manager?

Renay Marquez:
It’s all collaborative because we’re inclusive. Our students already have a seat in the classroom. The instructions come from the classroom teacher. I’ll look at the assignment, and if it’s not appropriate or it’s too much work for the students I support, I’ll go back and talk to the general ed teacher and say, “Can we try something like this instead?”

Renay Marquez:
Occasionally, if I’m really stuck, I’ll go into my digital archives, pull out something, print it, run it by the teacher, and say, “This is more appropriate for the student.” I’ve got a lot of teachers who now understand how to do that and are aware enough that when they make an assignment, they’re making several different versions for all the different students in the classroom.

Tim Villegas:
Do you have a go-to kind of basket of analog tools that you use to modify curriculum or assignments?

Renay Marquez:
Highlighters. I might not necessarily highlight instructions for some students, but I’ll highlight words that help them find vocabulary in their textbook or notes to start associating concepts. I’ll also partner up with a couple of general education students in the same zone as my students and teach them how to mark text. That’s an AVID method. Are you familiar with AVID?

Tim Villegas:
I am familiar with AVID. I’ve never specifically used or taught with it, but I know about it.

Renay Marquez:
Marking the text involves giving all students a handout of a specific reading the class is doing together. It has a few phases to get them to interact with the text. First, number all the paragraphs. Then do a cold read, usually independently. But if I’m working with three or four students, I might read it to them—even if they’re capable of reading—so my student can start hearing the words. Then we go back through and read again in two to three paragraph chunks, underlining or highlighting vocabulary words we don’t know or think are important. It’s helpful to have two or three different colors so they can create a key at the top. This helps them refer to paragraph 12 and see how a word is used differently than in paragraph 6. A student with a disability may not pick up on that, but they can refer to the reading as their peers discuss it and make a note.

Renay Marquez:
Pens and highlighters are big. Also, cheap whiteboards. You can buy high-quality binder sleeves—clear plastic ones that go into binders. You can get a pack of 300 at Costco. Slide in a piece of white paper or binder paper and use it as a whiteboard with a marker. That helps students who need someone to scribe for them. They can write somewhere else in their own handwriting.

Tim Villegas:
Right. You can also use that if it’s just a worksheet. Slip it in there and they can use the marker.

Renay Marquez:
Yes. If a student is identifying letters and it’s not a critical reading, or the reading is dense, they can pick out a few letters or key words and circle them.

Tim Villegas:
I like that. So we’ve got pens, highlighters in different colors, and the clear sheets to put paper in.

Renay Marquez:
That’s what it’s called. I’d have to go dig through a box if I knew anything else.

Renay Marquez:
I’m a big fan of the iPad. There’s an app called Math Mod. It’s basically graph paper with built-in mathematical symbols. It stops around early trigonometry, but it helps students keep things aligned. That’s a big deal in middle to early secondary grades—fifth through eighth. If you misalign a number, your equation will be off. Math Mod helps with that. It gives enough space to work on equations, though it’s not for graphing.

Tim Villegas:
That’s a good tip. I like that. I haven’t heard of Math Mod. Speaking of technology, are there any other pieces you’ve found extremely useful for modifying curriculum or communication? People always ask what you’re using and whether they can try it in their classroom.

Renay Marquez:
Just having access to either Google Suite or Office is important.

Renay Marquez:
I’ve carried a laptop around for years. Fortunately, in the past three years, our district has provided more laptops. I can take one from a classroom or bring it with me. I had a student working on a modified assignment using Google Slides. One of the things I had him do was take the Chromebook and figure out how to use the camera to take pictures of rocks on campus. Surprisingly, there were a lot of different varieties.

Tim Villegas:
That’s a great idea—to have a student go out with a paraeducator who has the technology to assist. It’s a simple suggestion, but I don’t think many people think of it. That’s a great example.

Renay Marquez:
You also need someone who can handle the conversation with the student: “This is how we’re going to use this technology. It’s not just to look up Disneyland trips.”

Tim Villegas:
Right. There needs to be a skill set there for sure. What advice would you give for moving inclusion forward wherever you are? We get a lot of teachers and parents asking how they can do that.

Renay Marquez:
Be mindful that all activities provided to students are ones all students should participate in, even if just for a little while. At the secondary level, rallies are a big thing. For students with sensory needs, rallies are a nightmare. But it’s also a time to be with their peers, to look around and be part of the rally. Some students surprise us—they’re fine and enjoy it. For others, it’s not about saying, “Let’s pull them out.” It’s about having a plan: “You can tell someone you want to leave when it gets too much.”

Tim Villegas:
Instead of making that decision for them and saying, “They can’t handle this,” give them a way to indicate when it’s too much.

Tim Villegas:
That’s great advice. I want to thank you for being on the podcast and having this conversation. Before we sign off, could you tell us where people can find more information about you and ParaEducate?

Renay Marquez:
Every Thursday during the academic school year, August through May, you can find a weekly blog from us at blog.[inaudible].com. We’re on Facebook and Twitter @paraeducator. All our books are available on Amazon. If you look us up as an author—ParaEducators—you’ll find us there.

Tim Villegas:
Awesome. Props to you for putting out weekly blogs. I’ve tried, and it’s so hard.

Renay Marquez:
Some weeks I feel like I’ve nailed it. Other weeks I feel like I phoned it in—and those are the ones that get the most comments about how brilliant it was. It frightens me sometimes. We’re in the middle of a series right now on teaching high school students how to write an essay, modified or not. We’ll have more on that next week.

Tim Villegas:
That’s great. Maybe we’re just all overthinking it. Thank you very much.

Tim Villegas:
That’s our show. We’d like to thank Renay Marquez for being a guest on the Think Inclusive Podcast. Make sure to follow them on Twitter and Facebook, and visit their website at [inaudible].com.

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