Building Inclusive Workplaces: What You Need to Know About Pre-Employment Transition Services ~ 611

Annette Jett:
Hi, this is Annette Jett, and you’re listening to the podcast.

Tim Villegas:
Recording from beautiful Marietta, Georgia, you are listening to the Think Inclusive Podcast, Episode 26. I’m your host, Tim Villegas. Before we get into the interview with Annette Jett, I have a couple of exciting things to share with you.

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Tim Villegas:
Thank you for sticking through these announcements. We appreciate it. Today we have Annette Jett, the Executive Director of the nonprofit Build Inclusion, a provider of employment services in the state of Kentucky. We talk about what pre-employment transition services are and how you might be able to access them in your state. This interview is full of helpful tips about transition services, so you might want to take notes. Also, if you like the podcast, please help others find us by giving us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. You can also tell your closest friends—we love word-of-mouth promotion. Without further ado, here is the interview.

Tim Villegas:
Hello everyone. Thank you for listening to the Think Inclusive Podcast. I’m Tim Villegas, your host. Today I have Annette Jett on the podcast. As the mom to a 13-year-old daughter born with disabilities, Annette has spent years learning how to navigate the resources available to support individuals with disabilities in accessing educational, employment, and independent living opportunities in the community. She is an educational expert and consultant, and the creator of the Take Flight curriculum, which is designed to help students map out their vocational journey by identifying their dream destinations, learning how to pack the skills they will need, recognizing who is on their supporting crew, and securing the fuel or resources they will need to get there. Annette is also the Executive Director of the nonprofit Build Inclusion, a provider of employment services in Kentucky. Welcome to the podcast, Annette.

Annette Jett:
Thank you so much for having me, Tim. I’ve listened to your podcast and followed you for many years online, so I’m really happy to be here.

Tim Villegas:
Fantastic. Thank you for your support. Let’s talk about pre-employment transition services. I know that’s how it’s described in Kentucky. I’m not sure if the same terminology is used across the country. This is certainly not my wheelhouse, so I’m going to be learning a lot from you. What are pre-employment transition services?

Annette Jett:
Pre-employment transition services—called Pre-ETS here in Kentucky—came about as a result of the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act that President Obama signed into law in July 2014. For people with disabilities, there are three sections in that law that are particularly relevant to helping more people with disabilities get into the workforce.

Section 110 states that 15% of a state’s vocational rehabilitation (VR) budget must be spent on pre-employment transition services. Section 113 defines what those services are. There are five required activities: workplace readiness training, self-advocacy, job exploration, work-based learning experiences (like internships and job shadowing), and counseling.

There are additional authorized activities too, but this is still relatively new. People are still figuring it out, and many are working together to make it happen. At Build Inclusion, we are a Community Rehabilitation Provider (CRP), which means we’re contracted through VR to offer these services. We provide them in group settings, in our office, in the community, and in local schools that invite us in. We complement what educators are doing in schools regarding vocational needs.

Section 511 of the law imposes limitations on sending students directly from high school into sheltered workshops or 14(c) certificate corporations that pay less than minimum wage. It prohibits that unless there’s a significant paper trail showing no other options. It also gives adults who’ve been in sheltered workshops or day programs a chance to explore options that weren’t available when they were in transition age.

Even though Pre-ETS is primarily targeted at students aged 14 to 21 who are in school, it can also be offered to adults. That’s something many people don’t know—even in our state. We’ve been working through that. There are a lot of benefits to this, and I’m glad you asked me to talk about it because it really does relate back to the school experience and preparing for transition.

Tim Villegas:
Well, number one, that was a fantastic description. Like I said, this is not something I study a lot, so I’m hoping that as people listen to this, they look into the… it’s the Workforce Act? I can’t remember now the one that was signed by President Obama in 2014.

Annette Jett:
Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act.

Tim Villegas:
Right. Workforce Innovation… okay, yeah. Perfect. And I didn’t realize what you said about that 15 percent. So that is a federal rule, I’m assuming?

Annette Jett:
It’s law. Law is law. And that’s what’s so cool about it. It is really good news in Kentucky because for the first time in decades, we are getting a fully funded VR budget here in our state. So in really simple math terms—and I mean really simple because I don’t know the exact match—but it’s about every $1 you put up from the state level, you get matching federal dollars of about $4. So you can really quadruple your budget by fully funding the VR budget. That means what we had last year to spend on Pre-ETS is going to go up because our budget has gone up. It’s an exciting time.

It’s also something that, because it’s so new, we have to figure out ways that we all work together—schools, providers, VR, college services, and different agencies. We even work with educational cooperatives and things like that to make this happen for people.

Tim Villegas:
Yeah. So I do have a couple of questions related to that. You listed off about five different things, one of which was college counseling or college readiness—I can’t remember exactly. So along with Pre-ETS, do you work with or envision VR working with students who want to go to college or postsecondary inclusive schools? Is that something different?

Annette Jett:
Well, what happens—at least in our state, and I believe this is federal as well—is that you really have to pick a track. You have to pick if you’re going to go the vocational route or the college track. But how do you know that when you’re a 16-year-old in high school? I didn’t know what I wanted to do when I was 16. I’m still trying to figure it out after 50!

So college counseling gives them an opportunity to tour different campuses, talk to disability resource offices, figure out if there are classes they could take that would eventually help them with vocational rehabilitation. In that regard, Pre-ETS, which is funded through VR, can help a person with their college track.

Once they go to college, there are certain things I’ve seen them assist with. We’ve given self-advocacy instruction to students going to college. We’ve helped with organizational skills, and that’s all been billed under Pre-ETS.

Tim Villegas:
Okay. And you talked about the age when students can access these services. I believe you said between 14 and 21, is that correct? I know there are some that go into adulthood, but the majority of students fall within that age range?

Annette Jett:
Right. That’s the most traditional route—ages 14 to 21 who are in school. And “school” can be very loosely translated. That can be homeschool, public school, private school, or even if they’ve started college already. There are a lot of benefits to the fact that we’re able to reach students at 14 now.

If you don’t mind, I’ll tap into that for a minute. It used to be that as a provider—and I don’t know which grade you taught, if you don’t mind me asking?

Tim Villegas:
I’m no longer a classroom teacher. I’m more of a consultant with my school district, but when I was a classroom teacher, I taught third, fourth, and fifth grade.

Annette Jett:
Okay. Once you get into high school, what they would generally do is bring in VR sometime within the last two years of high school. Parents would be a little shell-shocked, students would be a little stale, and they’d start to build a relationship. Then they’d usually put that person with a provider once they found their eligibility. A lot of times, states are on order of selection because they simply don’t have the budget to serve everyone who could need services.

So we would come in during the last two years of high school—generally the senior year—because you had so many students going through, and you had to get to the ones graduating. We’d come in and be expected to get to know the student in a few months, help them go out and get their dream job, and then offer supported employment services to support them in that job.

Last week, Dan was talking to mothers and said only 15 percent of people with disabilities are employed. For people in the transition age, it’s even bleaker than that. We do something called “Youth One Year Out” phone calls here in Kentucky, run through our UCEDD. We don’t have all the data from this past year yet, but two years ago, 13.9 percent of people who had graduated high school with a 504 or an IEP had jobs. The year after that, only 6 percent had jobs. So something was going in the wrong direction.

Now we have Pre-ETS. I hope that in time, it will be used in a collaborative manner to really help students. We want to see those numbers go up. I feel very passionate about that transition age. My daughter is 13, but when I started in this, she was six. In five years, she’ll be 18 and ready for the workforce. I’m hoping by then we’ve seen real improvements in outcomes for people. Pre-ETS can be a huge factor in that.

Tim Villegas:
Right. I have a question about how this is playing out in Kentucky, and since you’re a provider of employment services there, how would someone in another state know if their state has any sort of employment services or pre-employment transition services available? Where would they find that information?

Annette Jett:
First, I would check with the school. The regulations say that VR is supposed to coordinate with the LEA, or local educational agencies. So I’d check with the school and see what they’re getting. However, I’d also make sure to look for CRPs—Community Rehabilitation Providers—like us at Build Inclusion that are offering services in the community as well. You’ve got spring break, summer vacation, Christmas vacation, after school—what’s happening then? What’s happening when the job coaches or the people teaching this aren’t available during those times?

If you want to keep your student or child engaged, it’s a good idea to connect with a group that’s outside of school too. Sometimes we go into the schools, so that’s the best of both worlds because we’re the ones who will be there when school stops.

Annette Jett:
A lot of parents and students get caught off guard. Suddenly, they’re not in school eight hours a day and need to get a job. How do they do that? Another benefit of starting with students as young as 14 is that we’re building relationships with them early. Who would you feel more comfortable with—someone you’ve worked with for five years or someone who walks in your senior year and says, “I’m going to help you find a job”? It just makes sense. We’ve seen the students in multiple scenarios.

Our curriculum uses a lot of team-building and self-esteem activities. We dive into self-awareness, goal setting, self-determination—all of that. You get to see people in and out of their comfort zones, and that translates well to the workplace. You get a better sense of what type of environment will help that person succeed.

Annette Jett:
My advice—something I say here in Kentucky too—is to get a CRP involved. Get someone who can take the student from high school into adulthood. Teachers won’t be there after graduation. The job coaches at the high school level won’t be there either. Students will still need support, facilitation, and in many cases, the whole discovery process. Are you familiar with that? Discovery?

Tim Villegas:
I can kind of infer, but I don’t know if there’s a specific definition. I’d think it’s like person-centered planning—finding out a student’s passions or interests, their dream job. Is that what you’re talking about?

Annette Jett:
Yes. Here in Kentucky, we call it a Person-Centered Employment Plan. There’s person-centered planning for wraparound services, but this is specific to employment. As a CRP, we spend at least 10 hours in the community in different settings getting to know a person. But if we already have a history with them, how much further ahead are we? And how much further ahead are the families who already have a relationship with the people working with their students?

Annette Jett:
That’s what I find so enlightening about this. It’s great that students are getting training and that we’re spending money, but it’s really about outcomes. If outcomes can be changed because we’re recognizing and gathering information from students earlier, getting to know their families, and working across party lines—that’s what matters.

I tell parents and schools: it can’t be an “us versus them” mentality. And it’s not just parents and schools. When you get into the transition world, you’re talking about VR, other agencies, waiver services—a lot of people need to work together as a circle of influence instead of being territorial. We’ve got to put the person in the middle, just like in person-centered planning, and let them start self-directing their life with our support. That’s what we want to see.

Tim Villegas:
My next question is about how you got into this role. You mentioned your daughter is 13 now and you started this when she was six. Was it something where you were concerned about what options would be available for her when she reached transition age, and you started researching? How did you get into this?

Annette Jett:
That’s a good way to say it. Actually, I don’t come from an educational background. I do educational consulting and what I call vocational navigation. As you mentioned earlier, the curriculum has a flight theme, which is based on my last name.

Tim Villegas:
Yeah, it’s very clever. I like it.

Annette Jett:
That’s my maiden name. I used to hate my parents for giving me a rhyming name, but now it’s a beautiful marketing name. I had a catering and restaurant business. I have an MBA from Loyola—my minor was in tourism, food, and lodging. I worked long, hard hours. I was 38 when I got pregnant with Gracie. My husband and I had dated years before, had a big gap, and didn’t even know if kids were in our plan.

At 28 weeks, we had an ultrasound that came back a little differently. That’s when the journey began. We learned she has agenesis of the corpus callosum, which means the middle piece of her brain isn’t connected—five to 200 million nerve fibers that communicate back and forth.

Annette Jett:
That’s my maiden name. I used to hate my parents for giving me that rhyming name, but now it’s a beautiful marketing name. I had a catering and restaurant business. I have an MBA—I went to Loyola and got a master’s in business education, and my minor was in tourism, food, and lodging. I worked long, hard hours. I was 38 years old, and my husband was working with me at the time. We had dated years before, had a big gap in our relationship, and didn’t even know if kids were in our plan.

At 38, I got pregnant with Gracie. That’s when we started learning—at 28 weeks, we had an ultrasound that came back a little differently. That’s when the journey began. That’s when things changed. We found out she has something called agenesis of the corpus callosum, which means the middle piece of your brain is not connected—five to 200 million nerve fibers that communicate back and forth.

Annette Jett:
It’s a little bit like autism—there’s a spectrum of where people fall. Someone can have that and you wouldn’t even know it until they’re 30 and get in a car wreck and have an MRI. We were just learning as we went. She also has a younger brother who’s 20 months younger than her. I don’t know if you know anything about catering and restaurants, but it’s a demanding field. We owned our own restaurants.

When she was about five, we started getting new diagnoses—things like upper motor neuron lesions and other things that weren’t visible when her brain was smaller. These were impacting her mobility and her ability to learn.

Annette Jett:
So, family first. We gave up the business and went in a different direction. That’s when I got connected with our University Center of Excellence on Developmental Disabilities, which here is called the Human Development Institute—HDI. I went to school at HDI and got a developmental disabilities graduate certificate so I could learn about the resources that would help our family. But I always knew, in the back of my head—I’m an entrepreneur—I was going to use that information to help other families too.

When we first spoke offline, I told you I felt sorely misplaced. I was sitting in a room full of people who had been studying disability, who had vocational backgrounds, educational backgrounds, social work, psychology, therapy—and here I was with a business degree, and my daughter was six. I was just trying to get through first grade.

Annette Jett:
Then I realized, as I learned more, what a huge need there was for someone who understood business. Employment for people with disabilities is such a pressing issue. I really feel like it was meant to be. It wasn’t a direct path—I went through a lot of different angles to get here.

Even the curriculum I designed was something I used to help businesses before. I have a marketing degree as well, and I used to help businesses outline their goals. So this was a natural step—recreating that kind of tool into something that could help students outline their goals. We’re all working toward the same thing, and we all need to know if we’re on track or not.

Annette Jett:
So basically, I got here through a series of steps. When I went back to HDI, that’s when I got catapulted into a group of like-minded people. I started finding my people—people who understood me. My daughter wasn’t diagnosed with autism or Down syndrome. She actually got a cerebral palsy diagnosis later, at age 12. I had to find my own group of people I could relate to. That was difficult, but it helped me stretch and really dive into gaining as much knowledge in the field as I could.

Tim Villegas:
Yeah, I love it. I love that story. It sounds like everything you’ve done in your career has built upon the last thing. You started in catering and the restaurant business, then you had your daughter, went back to school to get more resources, and then created your curriculum. One thing after another has built to where you are now—including finding your communities, which I think is so important.

Annette Jett:
And I appreciate that. One thing I want to do now—it’s bigger than I ever thought it would be. Plans for the future include helping other organizations strategize so they’re maximizing the benefits of Pre-ETS to enhance discovery and support people in employment. I thought I was just going to help a few families, but it’s really built on and on. Now I’m invited into other places in Kentucky and even talking to people outside the state about how to do this better. I’m experiencing it through multiple lenses, and it’s really exciting.

Can you imagine Dan as anything other than a filmmaker? But he didn’t start there. He had a subject he was passionate about and a personal connection. He’s become better and better at what he does because of that—because he knows it. Who knows what the future holds for all of us?

Same thing for you. Like I said, I’ve followed you for a long time. I know you started out smaller, and now you’re doing educational consulting and changing people’s perspectives on inclusion all over the place.

Tim Villegas:
Thank you for what you do. Yeah. Well, thank you for this discussion. I know you referenced the conversation we had with Dan Habib. If you’re listening and want more information about Dan Habib and his films—specifically Intelligent Lives—check the podcast feed. That episode is in there for you.

You mentioned that film is being screened in Kentucky, right?

Annette Jett:
Right. Through our nonprofit, we bought a kit that allows us to take it into the community and show it. It comes with discussion points and also includes four shorter films. Intelligent Lives is his new film. I found out about it three years ago at the national TASH conference. I actually met Dan there and teared up because he had such a major influence on me becoming a parent advocate. Now I consider myself more of an activist.

That’s the kind of thing you need when you’re a parent and don’t have a guide. Seeing something like the movie Including Samuel can really change your whole trajectory. That’s what happened with me. I’m tearing up now too.

Tim Villegas:
But that’s what has to happen to create community, to change perspectives, and to change lives. When we need to do that, it’s a good point—because by showing these films in the community, we get a chance to show them to employers, to government leaders, to people who have never been exposed to disability. And really, unless it’s something you’ve experienced, you don’t think about it.

Annette Jett:
Exactly. I used to say, you never really think about access unless you’ve experienced the lack of it. You just don’t think about it until it’s in your lap. And we need to start thinking about it. We need to make sure people are creating inclusive cultures. That started very humbly for me—just trying to learn about it, trying to help my daughter, trying to make her life better.

And truthfully, a lot of the stuff we teach—around self-awareness, self-determination, self-esteem—it’s something all kids at age 14 could benefit from. I have a son too, and I think goal setting is important for everyone. But how do you know what to set goals for if you’re not aware of what you like or want out of life?

So we teach people through our curriculum how to make choices. We ask, “What do you like? What do you want? What’s important to you?” And sometimes you get these blank stares. They’ll look at you and say, “No one’s ever asked me that.” So we say, “Okay, let’s write it down. Whatever that looks like.” Because that’s what we have to do.

And we know that self-determination is directly linked to positive postsecondary outcomes—in employment, education, and independent living. People a lot smarter than me have come up with that research—at places like the University of Kansas and others. We just want to build on that.

Tim Villegas:
Everything you’re saying is so relatable. My story, while obviously different, comes from a place where I had a passion or interest of my own. I wasn’t satisfied with the learning options available to me, so I decided to create my own. And in the process, I connected with like-minded people.

I actually attended a conference in Atlanta way back when, and that was also an impetus for me. So, saying all of that, I realized that all the things about self-determination and building an inclusive environment or culture—those are things we’re already doing for typically developing kids when we talk about college and career readiness. We’re asking them, “What do you want to do? What are your interests? What are your passions?”

But our students with disabilities don’t always get asked those questions. And I think it’s really important what you said—some of these kids have never been asked, “What’s the dream of your life? Where do you want to be?” And sometimes you need to ask in a very systematic way—like through person-centered planning or a person-centered employment plan—otherwise, you’re never going to get those answers. So it’s a great thing that you’re doing.

Tim Villegas:
Having this curriculum in Kentucky—and hopefully beyond—I hope the people listening can go back to their local school, school district, or state voc rehab office and ask, “What are my options?” If their child is 15 years old and maybe not on an alternate assessment track, maybe they’re going for a high school diploma and just don’t know what their options are, I think it’s really important that this discussion points them to looking into those outside services to get some of that pre-employment transition help.

Annette Jett:
Right. And one thing I failed to mention—when you go to get employment services at vocational rehabilitation, you have to be evaluated and deemed eligible. But with pre-employment transition services, as long as you have an IEP, a 504, or a documented disability, you are considered potentially eligible.

So people with ADHD, anxiety, autism, Down syndrome—anyone with any type of disability qualifies for these services. And I wouldn’t stop at just what’s being offered at the school level. If there are other options, I’d explore them. Getting connected with a CRP—a community rehabilitation provider—or someone who can offer support once they leave high school is so important.

Because job coaches in high school aren’t going to follow them into summer vacation or adulthood. They just can’t. They’re bound by legalities and other constraints. So really, working together and getting all that in place before they leave high school—knowing who they’re going with—is key.

Annette Jett:
I’ll also say this: when people are choosing outside services—whether they’re graduating, in transition, or even 30, 40, 50 years old and have never worked before—they have a choice in who they work with. We call it consumer choice. That’s really important to know.

A lot of times people are told, “You can work with this person or that person,” but that’s not true. You can work with anyone offering those services in your area, as long as they’re willing to take you on as a client. That’s something a lot of people don’t know. And I wouldn’t have known any of this if I had stayed in catering.

Tim Villegas:
And you have cognitive…

Annette Jett:
So for me, it’s personal. It’s not just something I want to see happen because it’s a great idea—it’s personal. It’s going to help our family too.

If you’re in a different state—or even in Kentucky—I’m always willing to try to help. I actually got an email from Stephanie in Puerto Rico the other day. She said, “I’m not hearing a lot about pre-employment transition here. Can you direct me?” I’m always willing to lend a hand and point people to a place where they can start.

Another place to start is your state’s University Center of Excellence on Developmental Disabilities. And there’s also the Council on Developmental Disabilities.

Annette Jett:
I got to sit on our council here in Kentucky—it was governor-appointed—and I served for two years. That experience taught me a lot about policy, systemic gaps, and where we need to be plugging in as a community. It really helped raise the bar for what our young adults, students, and other people with disabilities need.

The council was made up of professionals, parents, and self-advocates. It was a really neat process, and I learned a lot from it. So if you don’t know where to go, that’s another place to start. You can go to your state’s Developmental Disabilities Council and probably get some direction.

Tim Villegas:
Those are fantastic suggestions. Thank you for bringing that up. Also, if someone wanted to get ahold of you or follow you on social media or check out your website, where would they go?

Annette Jett:
You can go to annettejett.com—that’s A-N-N-E-T-T-E J-E-T-T dot com. It has a lot of information about pre-employment transition services. It also talks about WIOA and other services I offer, like helping people strategize.

And you know, Tim, this isn’t just for CRPs. You don’t necessarily have to be a CRP to offer these types of services. I’ve worked with advocacy groups that received grants around employment but didn’t know what to do with them. So I came in and helped them figure out how to serve their students. I can train someone on the curriculum as well.

The difference between my curriculum and others I’ve seen is that it’s not just a curriculum in a box. I don’t think that’s effective. We need to know why we’re teaching these skills, what the history is, and what the issues have been around why employment hasn’t worked in the past. That’s what I help put together—things you can’t necessarily get from ordering a curriculum off the shelf.

My curriculum comes with training—whether that’s through webinars, video services, or in-person training, depending on where people live.

Tim Villegas:
Okay, that’s fantastic. If you want more information, make sure to go to annettejett.com. Are you on Twitter or Facebook?

Annette Jett:
I’m on Twitter under @annettejett1 and on Facebook under Annette Jett. It’s hard to know if people will find me unless we have mutual friends, but I’ll have a Facebook page up soon. If you want to connect on our nonprofit’s Facebook page, that’s okay too. We have one set up for Build Inclusion. You might want to see what we’re doing there—we feature a lot of success stories with students and young adults we’ve worked with.

And I keep saying young adults, but we’ve worked with people who are 40 or 50. I consider anyone who hasn’t had much experience in the workforce someone who can benefit from our services. That’s where we’re good—starting fresh with people.

But it does get harder as people get older and haven’t honed those skills. Just like educational skills, vocational skills can fade if they’re not practiced—like why we have extended school year programs. People can lose self-confidence. They’ll say, “I’ve never worked. I don’t think I can. I don’t know what to do.”

So if you’re a parent or teacher out there, make sure you’re doing everything you can at the transition age—whether that’s 18, 19, 20, or 21—when they’re graduating from high school. That’s the key time to get them involved with a provider who can help take them to the next level and offer support outside of school.

Tim Villegas:
This has been a fascinating discussion. Thank you, Annette, for being on the podcast and for all your time and suggestions.

Annette Jett:
Thank you so much, Tim. I really appreciate it, and I look forward to talking with you again.

Tim Villegas:
That is our show. We’d like to thank Annette Jett for being a guest on the Think Inclusive Podcast. Make sure to follow her on Twitter and visit her website at annettejett.com and buildinclusion.org.

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