Beyond Welcome: What Real Belonging Looks Like in Schools with Megan Ohlssen ~ 1326

Megan Ohlssen
I’m adopted. I’m Korean and Irish. I have two moms. I have a wife and two kids. I have a sister who had pretty significant learning disability, and I watched, I have learned how all those things have combined to who I am, and so even I still look for belonging in my own communities and spaces and the work that I do. So it’s personal, and when you put, my favorite thing is any kind of training or, you know, even if it’s strategic planning with schools, if I start with belonging activities with the adults and they feel the difference between feeling othered and a sense of belonging, it immediately opens like a floodgate for more powerful conversations around inclusion. It’s not just like being welcome is a singular dimension of belonging, but you’ve gotta go through being needed and loved.

Like you’re actively involved in decision making, and that looks different for kids. It goes right into how identity should be shaping the learning, not learning conforming identity. So what does it look like? I think sometimes I answer in reverse. It certainly does not look like students being segregated based on any identity marker.

Tim Villegas
Hey friends. Welcome back to Think Inclusive, real conversations about building schools where every learner belongs. I’m your host, Tim Villegas. Today’s episode is about belonging, what it really means in schools, and how it shows up or doesn’t in daily practice, and why it has to become more than just a statement on a wall.

We’re exploring how beliefs, language, and systems shape whether students with disabilities are truly part of their school communities and why this work starts with adults. Our guest today is Megan Ohlssen. Megan is a visionary leader advancing identity, equity, and belonging in education. She works closely with schools, organizations, funders, and system leaders across the country to center disability justice and push for meaningful, lasting change.

Drawing on deep experience in coaching systems, evaluation, and program design, Megan helps teams tackle hard conversations, identify pressure points, and move from intention to action. In this conversation, we talk about the difference between inclusion and belonging and how ableism shows up in subtle and not so subtle ways, why language, power, and adult comfort matter more than we’d often admit.

We also dig into how educators can approach frameworks like UDL without feeling overwhelmed and what it looks like to take real responsibility for equity when you have influence. And a fun side note, we kick things off with a surprisingly joyful conversation about Megan’s background. A little plug for our YouTube channel to check that out there.

This episode is brought to you by IXL. IXL is an all-in-one platform for K–12 that helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress in one place. As students practice, IXL adapts to their individual needs so that every learner gets just right support and challenge, and each student gets a personalized learning plan to close gaps.

Check it out at ixl.com/inclusive. Again, that’s ixl.com/inclusive. All right. After a quick break, it’s time to think inclusive with Megan Ohlssen. Catch you on the other side.

Tim Villegas
Megan Ohlssen, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast.

Megan Ohlssen
Thanks for having me, Tim. I’m excited to be here.

Tim Villegas
Can I ask you about your background? So we’re on video. So are those all your books?

Megan Ohlssen
They are. They’re real, and they span over—

Tim Villegas
And they’re real.

Megan Ohlssen
Yeah. What was my favorite thing? Like, oh, you want to talk about—oh, here, I got one for you. We were just doing this.

Tim Villegas
That’s so cool. I’m gonna actually choose—

Megan Ohlssen
Talking about belonging.

Tim Villegas
I know, right?

Megan Ohlssen
Look, I’ll—

Tim Villegas
Probably talk, look at that.

Megan Ohlssen
So maybe I’ll just leave it out.

Tim Villegas
No, please do. Please do.

Megan Ohlssen
Yeah.

Tim Villegas
You know, this is such a weird way to start an interview, but we record video. So if you’re listening on audio, switch over to YouTube so you can see Megan’s very impressive library. I’m so jealous of people who have really cool backgrounds. Not that my IKEA screen back here is bad, it’s fine, but one day I’m gonna have my library back there, maybe some lights, you know, make it—

I really enjoy your—oh, I see The Hobbit back there too.

Megan Ohlssen
See, that’s what’s fun is people look for certain things.

Tim Villegas
Oh my gosh.

Megan Ohlssen
Yeah, they know the book binding, and they’ll find something. And then I don’t have to remember so many author names or perfect book titles.

Tim Villegas
Funny. And is it color coded?

Megan Ohlssen
It is color coded. I feel like I should probably give the full—

Tim Villegas
We’re spending way more time than I thought we would talking about books, but we love books in our house, so it’s fine.

Megan Ohlssen
I appreciate it, because these were books that lived in multiple storage bins that took up space in my small Brooklyn apartment for ten years. And then when I moved and got a little more space, I was like, I’m dusting these off and putting them on display. It’s a good conversation starter, better than the weather.

Tim Villegas
Way better than the weather.

Megan Ohlssen
I’m also in San Francisco, so it’s the same weather all the time.

Tim Villegas
That’s right. I forgot you’re a West Coast— we won’t talk about baseball.

Tim Villegas
You have a book about belonging, and let’s talk about belonging, because it’s something I think about a lot, almost every day. How do we create spaces where every learner belongs? How do we build schools where every learner belongs? To you, what does real belonging look like in a school, and how do we know when we don’t have belonging?

Megan Ohlssen
That’s such a strong starter question. It’s almost like how I might have talked about inclusion ten or fifteen years ago. There are things you can see, but it’s also a way we operate from connecting our head and our heart and how we do what we do.

I think a lot about Eric Carter’s work out of Vanderbilt, Dr. Eric Carter, and his ten dimensions of belonging. Seeing him speak pushed me to say, I’m doing so much work around inclusion, but we need to move the goalpost. At the time, everyone was talking about welcoming school communities, adults saying we are inclusive, but kids not necessarily feeling it.

He talks about how being welcome is just one dimension of belonging. You have to be needed and loved. And when you look at the Othering and Belonging Institute, it’s about being a critical core member, actively involved in decision making. Identity should shape learning, not learning conforming identity. So sometimes I answer in reverse. It certainly does not look like students being segregated based on any identity marker.

We are most comfortable segregating based on disability. Even in racially or socioeconomically diverse schools, there’s still comfort with segregating students with disabilities. I think about students, but also staff. Building cultures of belonging has to start with staff. Equity work starts inward. Staff need to feel belonging to create it for students.

As I’ve done this work, I’ve learned more about myself. I’m adopted. I’m Korean and Irish. I have two moms. I have a wife and two kids. I have a sister with a significant learning disability. All of that shapes who I am, and I still look for belonging in my own communities and spaces. It’s personal, and starting with belonging activities with adults opens a floodgate for deeper inclusion conversations.

Tim Villegas
I remember we had Eric on a couple years ago at this point. And he said something about how no one’s going to fight you on belonging. No one’s going to be like, no, not everyone can belong. At least not yet. That’s not really a point of contention.

Focusing on belonging. And another thing you said about finding it for yourself, I think that’s this lifelong struggle, because we all have these different identities. And we experience belonging in seasons. It’s not like you experience belonging and then you’re done. There are seasons where I feel it, and seasons where I definitely do not.

Megan Ohlssen
Right.

Tim Villegas
So learning all that about ourselves and then applying that to students. Belonging has to be a goal, much like inclusion. Inclusion isn’t a destination. It’s a process. Belonging is very much like that as well. It’s the process of building schools where every learner feels like they belong.

Megan Ohlssen
Yeah. And I’m sure we’ll get into it. Belonging is about identity and all your identities, you as a whole person, every student as a whole child. Not the uppercase whole child, but truly all of who they are. We as adults keep taking on new identities. A big moment for me was becoming a mom and realizing that’s an entirely new way that shapes how I look at my work, my friends, my time.

And one of my moms, as she’s gotten older, has more mobility challenges and needs. Supporting her has forced me to see the world differently. Even though I’ve centered disability in education for seventeen years, it was only taking care of my mom over the last year that I really see seating and chairs and ADA from a much more powerful lens.

So the identity pieces are really at the root of belonging.

Tim Villegas
Your experience informs how you view your environment. Helping staff understand belonging in their own context helps them create it for students.

I love all of that. Your consulting organization, Anti-Ableist Ed—how do you describe it?

Megan Ohlssen
I don’t ever make things easy on myself. It’s the culmination of all my personal and professional experience. I was a special education teacher in Brooklyn, then supported inclusion work across New York City charter schools, then did national work—research, programmatic support for districts and states.

I got to a point where I felt like I was on autopilot, saying the same thing over and over. I wanted to have a bigger conversation, still do the same work, but be closer to real-time change. Less super high systems-level work and more pushing conversations forward.

People always asked, how do we get leaders to care, how do we get schools to invest, how do policy and funding align in service of students with disabilities? I kept saying society is so ableist. How do we create change inside classrooms when it’s societal?

I started doing a ton of learning and unlearning around disability justice. When we talk about equity, disability is part of that. That’s a soundbite I carry everywhere because people haven’t heard it.

I do consulting with a strategic lens. Districts, school systems, funders, organizations—they’re never separate to me. I’m always thinking about how they influence each other and how we can all do better.

Tim Villegas
After the break, Megan and I dig into how ableism shows up in everyday school practices, especially through language, assumptions about rigor, and adult comfort, and what it looks like to start shifting those patterns in practical ways. We also talk about how educators can approach frameworks like UDL without feeling overwhelmed or losing sight of belonging.

This episode is sponsored by Adaptiverse. If you’re a special education teacher, you already know the time problem. For every week, educators spend 15 to 20 hours manually adapting curriculum for students with complex communication needs, non-speaking learners, AAC users, and students with apraxia or language-based disabilities. Creating personalized materials, building visual supports, and designing multiple expressive pathways is essential work, but it’s exhausting.

Adaptiverse changes that. Teachers describe what they’re teaching and who they’re teaching, and the platform generates grade-level lessons personalized to each student with built-in scaffolds and multiple ways to show understanding. These aren’t watered-down worksheets. They’re rigorous, engaging lessons that presume competence, built on over sixty years of combined education experience. Adaptiverse has powered more than two thousand lessons in thirty-five states.

Visit adaptiverseapp.com to learn more.

Tim Villegas
So in your work, when you enter into a partnership with a system, how do you start that conversation? You like to probe and push. How do you approach that relationship?

Megan Ohlssen
Such a teachery answer. I meet people where they are and build enough of a relationship through conversations that feel safe and trusting. Once we have that, you’re telling me you need X and you’re interested in Y, and I’m saying we’re going to do A, B, and C, which gets us to Z.

Sometimes it’s data work, pulling out hard truths that systems don’t have the capacity to examine. Sometimes it’s relationship building. UDL is a great example. There’s so much resistance to it. I’ve found ten different ways to back into UDL without schools realizing it, and then I’m like, look, there’s a framework.

Tim Villegas
Unpack that for me. Maybe one or two examples.

Megan Ohlssen
If an organization is focused on equity, I ask how disability fits into that. It jars people. They may be focused on racial equity, but not disability. I start zooming into the engagement quadrant of UDL—interest and identity—without naming it. I talk about student voice, joy, identity. There’s an entry point to UDL everywhere.

Tim Villegas
Do you think the framework feels overwhelming?

Megan Ohlssen
Yes. I see that reaction all the time. I worked with a school to embed UDL into everything instead of doing a big overhaul. We broke it down, made it tangible, myth-busted. UDL is not choice, and choice is not UDL. We took it apart and made it a tool.

Tim Villegas
That misconception that you have to do all of it at once is huge.

Thank you for doing this work. We need more people doing it.

You mentioned choice. Teachers worry that choice means dumbing things down. What if students choose the easy thing?

Megan Ohlssen
That misconception is rooted in adult comfort and control. Rigor gets equated with compliance. When you give kids choice, you’re giving agency, and that means you’re not in control. That discomfort is where resistance comes from.

UDL is about building learner agency. Helping students understand how they learn, their goals, their preferences. You reflect with them on their choices. That reflection is learning.

UDL is incredibly rigorous because it requires thinking about representation, engagement, bias, identity, collaboration, and belonging all at once.

Tim Villegas
That’s a lot.

Megan Ohlssen
No pressure.

Tim Villegas
Teachers are exhausted. They don’t have time to reflect on bias or ableism. Are there practices that seem ableist but aren’t obvious?

Megan Ohlssen
Ableism, like racism or sexism, marginalizes based on identity. It shows up in language, physical barriers, invisible barriers. Where’s the ramp? Is it around the back? Who enters differently?

Learning looks one way. Engagement looks one way. Perceptions of accommodations. Perceptions of what students with disabilities are capable of. The accumulation of these things leads to ableist systems.

Tim Villegas
Language is huge. The word “sped.”

Megan Ohlssen
Don’t call me that.

Tim Villegas
Exactly. People say it’s just a word, but it carries so much.

Megan Ohlssen
I always say “students with disabilities.” I ask partners to say it and write it. It’s a norm. If I had a magic wand, I’d remove “sped” from everyone’s vocabulary.

Can you be inclusive if you have a sped teacher, sped class, sped kids? Probably not. Even “inclusion teacher” is a transition phase.

We were taught people-first language for a reason. “Sped” somehow became okay, and it shouldn’t have.

Tim Villegas
Calling myself a special education teacher doesn’t describe what I do. I provide special education services. The services should go to the student, wherever they are.

Megan Ohlssen
Yep.

Tim Villegas
How do you explain this to people who think “sped” is fine?

Megan Ohlssen
How would that make a student feel? Would you want to be labeled by one identity? If it doesn’t make you feel welcome or motivated, it will have the same effect on a student.

Say disability. If you’re afraid to say disability, reflect on that. When you don’t say it, you imply it should be hidden. That’s messed up.

Tim Villegas
You can curse.

Megan Ohlssen
I curse a lot.

Tim Villegas
Listening to disabled people changed how I viewed the word disability. They weren’t using it negatively. We need to normalize it.

As we wrap up, what are concrete steps educators can take?

Megan Ohlssen
Start with self-reflection. Where does discomfort show up? Saying disability? Advocating in meetings? Working with families?

What’s your proximity to disability? Learn. Read. Unlearn. Relearn.

Then find your sphere of influence. Ask simple questions consistently: Who’s not included in this decision? Whose voices aren’t heard?

Focus on language. Do exercises around ableist language. That’s often the entry point.

But also ask, what needs to be interrogated, dismantled, and rebuilt? That’s equity mindedness. Identify the issue, interrogate it, and take responsibility for your role in perpetuating it.

Tim Villegas
Say that again.

Megan Ohlssen
Equity mindedness requires identifying inequity, interrogating its roots, and taking responsibility for your role in it. If we all did that, we’d move schools forward.

Tim Villegas
Imagine if we all did that.

Megan Ohlssen
Hold yourself responsible not just for what you said and did, but what you didn’t say and didn’t do. Anti-bias work is active.

Tim Villegas
Where can people find you?

Megan Ohlssen
Antiableisted.org, megan@antiableisted.org, LinkedIn.

Tim Villegas
Thank you.

Megan Ohlssen
Thanks so much, Tim.

Tim Villegas
That was Megan Ohlssen. One thing I’m really taking away from this conversation is how much belonging lives in the everyday choices we make as educators, especially the ones we perhaps don’t even notice. Megan reminds me that inclusion isn’t only about where students are placed, but it’s also about language, power, and whether we’re willing to sit with the discomfort long enough to change our systems.

That idea of equity mindedness, asking not just what the problem is, but what is my role in perpetuating the problem, feels especially important if we’re serious about breaking down silos and designing schools where learner variability is expected, not just managed.

One practical step for educators is this: pay close attention to the words you use this week, how you talk about students, services, and supports, and ask yourself who that language centers and who it quietly pushes aside. Small shifts in language can open the door to bigger shifts in mindset and practice.

If this conversation resonated with you, share this episode with a colleague who’s building inclusive schools. Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and follow Think Inclusive wherever you get your podcasts. Shout out to all the changemakers out there. I hope our conversation with Megan Ohlssen lit a fire under you. Now go change the world.

If you have something to share about how you’re changing the world, you can always email me at tvillegas@mcie.org.

All right, time for the credits. Think Inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. I write, edit, mix, master. I basically wear all the podcast hats and the baseball caps. This show is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Scheduling and extra production help from Jill Wagoner.

Our original music is from Miles Kredich, with extra vibes from Melod.ie. Big thanks to our sponsors, IXL and Adaptiverse. Visit ixl.com/inclusive and adaptiverseapp.com.

Fun fact, spring is officially here, or very close to being here. It starts with the vernal equinox around March 20th or 21st. I can’t remember exactly right now. When day and night are almost the exact same length, like nature hitting the balance button. When the season wastes no time. Daffodils, crocuses, tulips pop up, and all of the animals seem to wake up from hibernation. All that extra daylight can boost vitamin D, even serotonin, which helps explain that sudden springtime lift, unless pollen has other plans like it does for me.

And if you want one truly wild spring image, imagine some coastlines get bioluminescent plankton, making the waves glow blue at night. I have not seen that in person. Are you excited about spring right around the corner? Have you seen the bioluminescent plankton? I’d love to know about it. Email me at tvillegas@mcie.org. I read every single message.

If you’ve made it this far, you’re officially part of the Think Inclusive Inclusion Crew. Want to help us keep moving the needle for inclusion? Head to mcie.org and click the donate button. Give $5, $10, $20. That helps us keep partnering with schools and districts to move inclusive practices forward and support educators doing the work.

Find us on the socials almost everywhere at Think Inclusive. Thanks for hanging out, and remember, inclusion always works.