Building Inclusive Schools: A Journey of Transformation and Belonging with Angela Macklin and Sue Wright ~ 1338

Angela Macklin: The parents purposely moved the birthday party so that the space was accessible and had an elevator. And then it was a black light party, and they made her a tactile board so that she could see it and feel it. And they even had treats that were accessible to her. And when mom shared with us at conferences, she was awestruck. She was like, “No one has ever thought this far ahead for my child.”

And then when she got there with the student, all of the kids ran up to say hi to her and to greet her. And when we were a part of second grade, they do this really cool thing called Star Student, and he was the Star Student of the Week, so he got to share, using his communication device, all about himself. And then the kids draw a picture and talk about what they like or what is similar. It was really amazing to see all of these kids draw this student as who he was, with his mobility device and his communication device and all of the things that made him who he is, while also honoring all of his interests of the Seahawks.

Go Seahawks. Go Seahawks.

Tim Villegas: Hi, friends. Welcome back to Think Inclusive, real conversations about building schools where every learner belongs. I’m your host, Tim Villegas. Today’s episode is about what happens when a school stops waiting for the magic golden plan. No grant funding, no district mandate, no blueprint, just a small elementary school that decided to start anyway, and four years later, looks completely different.

So how does that actually happen? Angela Macklin is a special education teacher and inclusive systems leader who helped drive a school-wide transformation at Cottage Lake Elementary in Woodinville, Washington. Work she recently took district-wide in a new role supporting UDL and inclusive practices across Northshore School District.

And Sue Wright has taught kindergarten at Cottage Lake for 15 years, which means she remembers when the general education and special education programs were housed in entirely separate buildings. We talk about how to have conversations with colleagues who flat out disagree with you, what a case manager’s job looks like when there are no segregated spaces left, and why small groups work better when they’re for everyone.

Also, one of these two survived their very first teaching observation with a shoe in her face. You’ll want to stick around for that one. Before we meet our guests, I want to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by IXL. IXL is an all-in-one platform for K–12 that helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress in one place. As students practice, IXL adapts to their individual needs so that every learner gets just-right support and challenge, and each student gets a personalized learning plan to close gaps. Check it out at ixl.com/inclusive. Again, that’s ixl.com/inclusive. All right, after a quick break, it’s time to think inclusive with Angela Macklin and Sue Wright. Catch you on the other side.

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Angela Macklin and Sue Wright, welcome to the Think Inclusive podcast.

Angela Macklin: Thanks for having us. We’re really excited.

Tim Villegas: I’m really excited too. And you just got off of work and you’re doing this.

Angela Macklin: Yep, we did.

Tim Villegas: Wow. Yeah, so I appreciate you staying after to talk to me. Well, let’s just get started. I wanna know about your school and what inclusion looks like for the students in your school right now.

Angela Macklin: Yeah. We have a really small school, actually. We’re less than 300 kids.

Sue Wright: Just under 300.

Angela Macklin: Yeah. So it’s about one and a half to two general education classrooms per grade. We’re a tight-knit school, a two-story building. It’s kind of cool because we all get to know each other really well, since we spend so much time together and there’s not a lot of us.

I would say that inclusion at our school has changed drastically over the last four years. For a long time, I remember hearing the term reverse inclusion, where students from general education would go into the segregated classrooms and support in there. That never seemed to sit quite right with me. But now it’s totally different. Our students access all spaces on our campus. There’s no space that’s singly for this student or that student. They’re all collective learning spaces.

We’ve worked really hard to make our campus more accessible by adding more buttons to get in and out of the doors, to promote all of that independence. We’ve also decorated the walls with more diversity around language and culture and disabilities. So that’s present everywhere. There are images. There’s collective artwork that we as a whole school have made, which has been really cool. So it’s a community. I guess that’s probably the best way to put it. We have a learning community here. We have a space where everybody belongs and no one is excluded, which is the best thing it could be.

I feel like kids genuinely come to school and they enjoy being around each other. It’s diverse in ability, and that I don’t feel is pretty typical in other places. So just the opportunities that kids have here in all aspects are new but important, and obviously what it should have always been.

Being part of that work and supporting that, Sue and I support each other, so I feel like there’s also been this really cool wraparound of adults where it’s not just student-focused, but so many of the adults have become more inclusive with each other and built more relationships. There’s always been quite a line between, like, well, you’re gen ed teachers and we’re special ed teachers, right? Whether it’s even sitting at a staff meeting or a professional development put on by the district. And so I feel like I’ve seen over the last couple of years our staff become even more integrated.

I had a para in my classroom, and she worked in this area classroom for, I think, like 13 years. And then once we started to change the system, she was like, “Oh my gosh, I have friends. There are people here.” She even started making connections, and saw the impacts of the kids making the connection. So it’s been really cool to see it just branch beyond what I could have ever imagined.

I feel like we have it on campus, and now it’s really kind of, I don’t know, bleeding for lack of a better term, but seeping its way into the community. Kids have friends, and they play with their neighbors, because they’re all part of that community now. It’s not separate. So I guess it’s a very long way of saying, we are a we. It’s not an us or a them anymore. It’s a we.

Sue Wright: Well, I was gonna say, which is really nice from my perspective, having been here now 15 years in kindergarten. As I got to this school, being a very small school, it took me actually several years to learn everybody’s names, because the programs were so segregated. The general education was in one whole building, while the special education programs were housed in a whole nother building.

And it wasn’t until, gosh, a couple years in that I just started getting a few kids: “Oh, they’re gonna visit your classroom and do this, or they’re gonna do that,” and then they’d be in and out. And I really enjoyed that. Little did I know I’d be exposed to that and enjoy it. So even way back then, I would go and say, “This is what I’m doing with my class. Can I have them a little bit longer? Can I join the conference? Can I meet with parents?” That type of thing. So just in dipping my toes in that, years before Angela was here, I saw that need for a little bit more connection between the certificated staff and also the support staff. It took me a long time to learn who the support staff were and really what their roles were, as a gen ed teacher not really having any support and being in the classroom on my own. So a lot of changes, for sure.

Tim Villegas: And so it sounds like this process happened very organically. Is that what I’m hearing?

Sue Wright: I think at first it did, because all of a sudden we were getting told, now every child has a seat in a gen ed classroom. And that took a little while to kind of get started: how is that gonna work, are we gonna have enough tables, how long will kids stay. So everybody was doing it a little differently, building their comfort zones. So I would say that happened more organically. When Angela got here, then it became much more intentional. That’s how I would describe it.

Angela Macklin: Yeah, and I would say, because I did teach segregated and then I worked as a teacher coach for the district. But before I was a teacher coach, I taught special education in a very segregated setting. And there was a lot of the mindset of, you have to earn your way into general education. You have to show that you can do X, Y, Z before you can go. Or there was also, students weren’t in their grade levels, so if they were in second grade, they were put in kindergarten.

Sue Wright: It was more skill level based on grade level.

Angela Macklin: Yeah, yeah.

Tim Villegas: Gosh, I have a lot of questions. So Angela, you and I have a very similar start in teaching, ’cause I taught in segregated classrooms before I became a coach, or a program specialist. And when I was a teacher in a segregated self-contained classroom and I was trying to get people to just hear me out about, “Hey, there’s a different way, there’s another way to do this,” I oftentimes felt like I was talking to a brick wall. They either didn’t understand, or they could not grasp what I was talking about, or they just ignored me. They’re like, “Yeah, yeah, that’s really nice. Okay, and now I’m onto the other thing.” So as you’re building this change where you are in your school, in the district, what is your thought process, and how do you go about having those conversations with people who maybe just aren’t taking you seriously or flat out disagree?

Angela Macklin: Yeah, that happened. That definitely happened. And I think there was a lot of, it was uncomfortable. That was probably the best way to label it. It was pretty uncomfortable. And I think in those opportunities, the best thing for myself was that I had a goal to do what was best for kids. It was never personal. It was never that I didn’t appreciate what somebody did, or their profession, or all of their experience. It was that my goal was always to do what was best for kids and what research has been telling us, and what they were missing out on.

So whenever I would have those conversations, I would always try to take the person out of it, in regards to me and that relationship between the adults. It was always back to, well, I’m doing or asking or suggesting this because, based on blah, blah, blah, this student would benefit. So I always tried to take out the personality conflict or the misunderstanding, because I think that until you really intertwine yourself into all of this and start to break it apart, you can’t quite understand it. It’s like breaking apart a lot of what the system has taught you even when you were in school, right? And that can be really hard and uncomfortable. A lot of people still to this day aren’t quite ready for that.

So it’s having those conversations and always bringing it back to the student. Well, how is this beneficial for the student? And my lens of pulling it back there, I think it was that in conjunction with finding the people who were ready for it and a little bit more open to it, and then building that partnership and showing it through that avenue too. Because I think there’s a lot of people, I like to call them bus riders. They’re either in the house or in the school peeking out like, what’s the bus there for. And then they come out of the building, and then maybe they’re standing on the sidewalk. Maybe eventually they make it to the bus stop, and then they’re peeking in the bus, right? There are all these different steps of where people are in their inclusive journey, whether it’s around disability or race or any of that. And so I think honoring that and showing them, “Yep, look at these cool things. We have this awesome stuff happening on this bus. It’s a party.”

So I think just gaining respect and traction through showing what is happening with the work has gained a lot of momentum, especially here. Like Sue said, special education has been at the school for a very long time, and the segregated program in particular. So kind of breaking that away, and then a lot of it too is offering up ideas and questions that make people think, “Oh, well actually, yeah, why is it like that?” Really putting some of those thoughts into their brain of, “Oh, I never thought about that before. I don’t know why it’s like that.” Gaining some through curiosity. So pulling it back to the student, gaining through curiosity, gaining through just showing what’s happening. And then once you see some of it happening, you can’t not want to be like, “Okay, yeah, look how awesome this is.”

And I would say I had some team members, like my own pod, my paraprofessionals, when I came back, and there was obviously some resistance. What is comfortable is comfortable, and it’s easy and it’s what works for me. And then when you shake all that up and it’s no longer what’s comfortable and easy for me, I have to reframe my whole thinking around that. And it gets uncomfortable and hard.

Sue Wright: I also think the approach Angela has used has been a big part of the success that we have here at our school. When I was first introduced to the idea of inclusion, it was like, “These are the kids that are in there during this amount of time with what you’re doing,” but I didn’t really have any knowledge of what their goals were or what it was they needed from me. Was it really just a way to socially connect? Were they coming for academic purposes? If so, this is what I would be doing. Would it be modified? Those kinds of things, but not a lot of back and forth. So I was never part of the team. I just had kids who showed up in my room and then left my room.

When Angela got here, we talked a lot about each kid that would be in our classrooms, and at Angela’s suggestion she meets with each grade level team once a week, so we always know once a week we as a grade level team are meeting. And that could be grade level colleagues that really don’t have any inclusion kids that might be on Angela’s caseload, but everybody’s learning. And I think that’s where it got to really be, “Hey, this is cool. That’s going on in your classroom? I wanna try that too. Can you come into my classroom and show me? Because I might have a kid that’s not on your caseload, but I’m seeing some of the same behaviors. Can you come in?” And I think through that grade level connection, and Angela has so many grade levels to connect with, it really has kind of started that fire of, “Hey, this is really cool.” You know, rather than having kids dropped off and then picked up. It’s more of that teamwork, collaborative approach.

Tim Villegas: Yeah. It sounds like you went from, this is a good idea and we’re just going to figure it out, and then moving that into being very intentional about what inclusion looks like and inclusive practices. And so Angela, what is your role now as a special education case manager? If there are no segregated spaces, are you essentially acting as an inclusion facilitator? Or is it just a different name? Help me understand that.

Angela Macklin: Yeah, I would say yes, and all of the above. I have eight awesome students I support. It’s grown big. I also have a large amount of staff in my team who support students, so I have to support them. So, sadly, I don’t get to teach as much as I want to. That’s the best part, and I would say that’s the hardest part of this job. I want to spend more time with kids and do more intentional teaching. But between supporting schedules and adults, I have intentional time built in with each kid throughout my week and my schedule, but sometimes things just happen and you have to be somewhere.

So I would say I’m kind of like you said, more of a facilitator in that aspect, and I’m still writing IEPs and generating plans, and I co-plan and we partner on a variety of different things. So I’m kind of everywhere. I clock a lot of steps every day. It’s a totally different role than I would have ever imagined when I started. Finding that flow has been really hard, and then you have some new team members that show up and you’re really building the understanding, and when I get new kindergartners on my caseload, there’s all of that. So it’s just like a jack of all trades, and then I feel like I’m also able to, like Sue was saying, hop in and take a peek on different students.

I am also holding really tight to some social skills groups that we do, because I love teaching social skills. And what’s really cool is I partner with my gen ed partners, and I just have a group of kids, and some of them are supported through IEPs and some of them are not. And it’s really cool because the kids all get to be a part of my space, and it de-stigmatizes my space, it de-stigmatizes me as a teacher. And so at some point I’ve taught, I feel like, all of kindergarten, first, and second grade. So I can build these relationships and know kids, and it’s just another person to help them. A lot of kids just like a little bit of a break, where we go and we can do activities and learning and lessons where we move our body all around the room, that kind of thing.

So I think it’s given me the opportunity to try on some new things too, and then these partnerships that have been created have provided an opportunity for this role to expand beyond a teacher role. So it’s been a journey, but I really kind of like that it doesn’t have any parameters. Every day I’m kind of like, “Well, let’s try this.” And it just kind of builds into something more and more. Like today I talked with first grade and there were some challenges happening at recess, and I was like, “Hey, I was gonna build this conversation, but I was thinking, why don’t we co-teach this, and we can talk about safety and inclusive ways to play at recess, especially ’cause we don’t currently have a playground?” This just seems like a whole class conversation rather than just a small group, and they were totally down. So that’s created a whole partnership where we get to co-teach around social skills and playing successfully and inclusively at recess. So just being able to have opportunities to do those things has been really cool.

Tim Villegas: Yeah. And Susie, did you wanna add anything?

Sue Wright: Yeah, I think with Angela being able to think on her feet and see these opportunities and take advantage of that co-teaching, like in the moment, that is so supportive of kids learning that right in the moment or shortly thereafter, rather than waiting a couple of days and somebody talks to somebody else who talks to somebody, and then they come talk to the kids. I just think it’s so much more effective.

And also I wanted to add, with the pulling kids in and out of her classroom, and kids in and out of all classrooms, I think working in those small groups facilitates friendships a little more readily than they would if they were all just in a class of 21 or 22 all the time. So everybody getting that opportunity to work within a small group intentionally with instruction and all of that really does help facilitate the friendships that are happening in the classroom. I know in my classroom my kids are just so excited to be the buddies of kids when they come in. So they want that close proximity. They wanna ask questions. They wanna be helpful. They wanna have a dialogue going back and forth. They’re getting used to different ways to communicate. And I just think all of that being offered facilitates that relationship, which is so important.

Tim Villegas: Yeah, and what I’m hearing is the small groups aren’t just for the kids with IEPs, it’s for everybody, right? So like what you were saying, it destigmatizes small group intervention for anyone.

Sue Wright: And it’s a great way to say that to parents who might feel like their kid is being stigmatized by being pulled out, not even in Angela’s classroom, but for various services. And we tell them, “Kids are excited. They wanna be the ones. When is it my turn? When am I gonna go?” And the fact that everybody is going somewhere at some point during the year, that really helps with families thinking about it’s not as stigmatizing as maybe it was when they were younger and in school. So that’s been helpful on that front as well.

Angela Macklin: Yeah. And we’ve had parents share, I had a parent come up to me and she was like, “Oh, my daughter absolutely loved being a part of your group,” and she was hoping that she could do it again. And it’s just very fluid, again, very non-stigmatizing. We did a math group one year, and I was using parent volunteers that the kindergartners had in my space too. So it totally destigmatized that too. There’s just this different flow, and it’s like, of course we want to push in and support in classrooms as much as we possibly can. But I also truly think that there’s value in offering spaces that feel safe, and sometimes are a little bit quieter, and, like I said, allow activities to happen that wouldn’t be able to happen in a room with 21 kids. And it’s never just a set group of kids. It’s rotating. I love it because I get to spend time with so many kids. Again, it de-stigmatizes me and my staff.

And I feel like in these opportunities, kids also feel safe asking questions when they’re curious, some things that maybe families aren’t able to answer at home, or they feel comfortable and trusted that this is a safe space to ask these questions. And kids are genuinely curious. They are. So when we can answer questions and show them things and really model and help them understand how to communicate in a variety of ways.

Sue Wright: And a way to ask the question, we’re right there to guide. A question that comes out of a five-year-old can be very direct. And you think, well, let’s teach them how to rephrase and maybe phrase the question in a way that comes across kindly and more softly, because they’re just asking what’s on their minds, right? So it’s a great teaching opportunity in the moment, too.

Tim Villegas: Yeah. What I love about what I’m hearing is that it sounds like you’re just really responsive to the needs of the students that you have. And I think that’s a really important takeaway for anyone who’s listening and going, “How can I… You know, my school is not 300. It’s 600 or 700.” But you can still look at the needs of the students in your school and then design the school around meeting the needs of those students. And so that’s what I’m hearing that y’all have done so intentionally.

Angela Macklin: Yeah, and I think that’s been a process. Those collective groups didn’t happen year one. Year one we had some other focuses, like structure and spaces and de-stigmatizing just disability. We had other focuses. We’re now in year four of really working through and changing things and building on things. So that was like a year two thing I think we tackled. And all of what we’ve done has been stuff that we’ve kind of had a vision for and then we’ve built on top of. It’s never been that someone gave us a plan and was like, “Here’s the magic golden plan for inclusion.” That doesn’t exist, and it didn’t happen. We didn’t have the district providing any grant funding or support or guidance or requirements. We just were ready to make a change, and we were like, “Okay, let’s start, and let’s see where this goes,” and we’ve just been ticking on top of that. It’s a process where you just have to start somewhere.

Sue Wright: And I would say even within our district, our schools do it very differently and approach it differently. And I think one thing, learning about how other schools do it, both in our own district and other districts, is that sometimes inclusion means to people that all students are in one classroom all day. That’s what is happening. And I love that we have the option for any student to find that quiet space, because it can be over-stimulating. It can be loud. It can be bright. It can be all of those things. So I’m just really glad to be working within an inclusive community that does provide students a break who need it, and not to feel the pressure of inclusion meaning 100% of the time in the same classroom with no options. So I feel really good about having our students have that option.

Tim Villegas: After the break, Angela and Sue share what happens when belonging follows students beyond the school day into birthday parties, pumpkin patches, and neighborhoods, and how they bring families into the work as true partners. This episode is sponsored by Adaptiverse.

Yeah, I think that tends that line of thinking, inclusion can mean for some people inclusive placement, right?

Sue Wright: Yeah.

Tim Villegas: And inclusive placement, when you think about inclusion as inclusive placement, it means time spent in general education. So the goal may be 100% for 100%, right? But if that is the only thing that you’re focused on, or the priority, then it can come at a cost to other things. And so it sounds like what you’re doing with meeting the needs of the learners at your school is kind of taking that into consideration, but still being fully committed to full inclusion and what that means for your students. Do you mind, I totally forgot, I didn’t ask this at the beginning, but do you mind saying your school and district, or do you not wanna say that?

Angela Macklin: I don’t mind. We currently teach at Cottage Lake Elementary School in Woodinville, Washington, and we are part of the Northshore School District.

Tim Villegas: Awesome. And I wanted to ask you about the number of students. Historically, has that school just always had about that many students, or did it break off from a larger school? I’m just curious about that history.

Sue Wright: I think it used to be bigger. I’ve been here 15 years and it’s been fairly small for all of those years. Part of the reason, we’re located in a part of the district where the zoning laws are different. So many of the houses need to be on acreages. We don’t have a lot of apartment buildings and cul-de-sac, cookie cutter houses type of thing. So our community comes from a different kind of setting where there are fewer houses because of the building. But I think it maybe did used to be quite a bit bigger a long time ago, but that was definitely before my time.

Angela Macklin: And some families have also chosen to go to a different school based on a couple of things, like district testing and stuff like that. So they’ve chosen other opportunities, so that always takes away some numbers for our school as well.

Tim Villegas: Yeah. Thank you. That’s really just satisfying my curiosity. I wanted to ask about student stories. We’ve talked a little bit about the grassroots effort to change inclusive practices, or move inclusive practices forward, at Cottage Lake. Can you think of any particular stories of impact for learners who have been included?

Angela Macklin: I could think of millions. I could probably talk to you, Tim, for days about this because it’s so cool, and they’re my favorite things to think about. I like these two because one is from the first year that we started this whole journey, and then one is from this year.

The first year we started this journey, I had a student, he was in second grade. In kindergarten and first grade, he had been in a separate building, in a separate space. He had never accessed general education ever, so he had never gone on a field trip, been part of a classroom community, anything like that. And so when we were a part of second grade, they do this really cool thing called Star Student, and he was the Star Student of the Week, so he got to share, using his communication device, all about himself. And then the kids draw a picture and talk about what they like or what is similar. It was really amazing to see all of these kids draw this student as who he was, with his mobility device and his communication device and all of the things that made him who he is, while also honoring all of his interests of the Seahawks.

Go Seahawks. Go Seahawks.

Tim Villegas: Yeah.

Angela Macklin: It was a good day to say that. And then it becomes a book, and it went home, and mom shared with us that it was something that she had never seen before, where she felt like her son was seen for who he is, and was celebrated for who he is. And it wasn’t a deficit. It was an exciting thing for him. So hearing her story with that, and then watching him be a part of a field trip, and watching the kids in his class come and ask to sign his yearbook, and him being able to sign yearbooks, it was just a nice start to all of it. It was the reminder of, this is why we do this. This is why this is important. This is why we’re pushing and advocating and really fighting some of the hard things to make more of this happen. So that was just the peachy part of how it all got started.

And then this year I have a kindergarten student, and she was invited to her first birthday party. And not only was the birthday party accessible, the parents purposely moved the birthday party so that the space was accessible and had an elevator. And then it was a black light party, and they made her a tactile board so that she could see it and feel it. And they even had treats that were accessible to her. And when mom shared with us at conferences, she was awestruck. She was like, “No one has ever thought this far ahead for my child.” And then when she got there with the student, all of the kids ran up to say hi to her and to greet her. And it obviously showed the belonging that’s happening every day at school.

And mom shared that she was like, “I haven’t seen this ever before with my child out,” even at church. She’s like, “This was totally different and made me see how much you’re doing at school.” And I feel like it’s so common for us to be able to see these beautiful things that happen. I have goosebumps. But for a parent to experience that and witness that and be a part of that in a space especially that wasn’t school, it leaves me speechless, because when you see that these stories and these moments are happening beyond what you have control over, so many other people were involved in making that happen for her, and no one asked anyone to do any of that. It all happened organically. And then that short story was shared with her kindergarten teacher, and it came to me. So it wasn’t like they asked me. They just took it upon themselves, and she’s just a part of the class. She’s a part of their community, which is like everything you can hope for.

So to see it happening in these organic ways, beyond what we’re doing as educators, and for parents to see it and feel it, that’s the work. That’s the story. That’s the purpose. It’s going into the community now. And so to see where it started, and that story was still obviously really special to me and for that student, and to see where it’s at now, I’m like, “Okay, what’s the next four years gonna bring us?” So those are two. I mean, there are so many more, but those are two that stand out to me.

Tim Villegas: Oh, thanks for sharing.

Sue Wright: Yeah. I’ll just share one really quickly. I have a kiddo, and oftentimes it takes us a lot of work to plan a field trip to go on with all kiddos, because some kids with mobility devices can’t ride just the general bus that everybody else can. So it always involves us using at least two buses. And that expense gets pushed along to parents, because we don’t have a big bus that also has wheelchair accessibility, and our parents are so generous and gracious about helping us do that, and also having parent volunteers or chaperones and other students ride the smaller bus so that every student feels like they’ve got friends and are riding together as well. And that’s never been a problem. Families are always so grateful and gracious about doing that, and they have a good time.

And it was not this last fall, but the fall before that, we went out — here in Washington State we have a lot of pumpkin patches, and so that’s what we do in October. And we called ahead and did a lot of talking to the pumpkin patch we wanted to go to, to make sure they had everything that would meet everybody’s needs, like a changing room, and could we get wheelchairs out there, and what were some of the activities. This place just checked off all our boxes, so it was fabulous. And one of our little guys who uses a mobility device as well as being able to walk was just so thrilled to be out in the open air and exploring, and just walked here, there, and everywhere.

And one of the activities they had was, if you’re thinking of a bouncy house, a much more subdued bouncy house. So it would be like having a little pillow or jumping pad on the ground. And he was busy watching the kids, and the worker came over and said, “When this group is finished, would you like this child to have a turn on their own?” And I thought that was fabulous, because here we are, a member of the community saw that this child might really enjoy that and invited him. And he had a full-time nurse to go out on that. They had to remove their shoes and everything, and his face just lit up being able to bounce on that bouncy house. And I just was so thrilled that, even outside of our own school community and parent community, here’s the community at large that has seen this need and wanting this child to have the same experience. And he was just thrilled. And that just warmed my heart that day.

Tim Villegas: Oh, that’s fantastic. I really appreciate you sharing those student stories. When you think about the families that have also been impacted, how do you bring families into what you’re doing and building a culture of belonging at your school?

Angela Macklin: Yeah. I think that’s obviously a huge part of it. A couple of things that we have done: for example, we do curriculum nights at the beginning of the year every year, and traditionally special education had a separate one. And so when we were starting to think more inclusively, what does that look like? How do we also model to all parents and all families our inclusive partnerships as educators? And so what we do now is I go in and I join curriculum nights, and I share who I am. That way, if and when their kids come home and they’re like, “I had a great time in Ms. Angela’s class,” they know who I am.

So there’s that, and then I always do a little brief discussion around disability. Particularly, we use the word. It’s not something we have to shy away from. It’s something that we can talk about and celebrate. When and if your kids have questions, I’m a great resource for you. I always share a couple of books that I feel like bridge that conversation with parents and their own children. So I feel like that’s helped a lot with educating parents in general.

So I think that’s part of it, and then the other part has come from my relationships with my students and their families that I support, in being totally transparent and honest with them. For example, curriculum is very inaccessible, right? And I feel like parents need to know what is missing or what is not accessible for their kids so that they can also advocate for it. So there is a part of being true and genuine and honest with families in what is not happening, so that we can work together to make it better or to advocate together in the right places.

So there’s that, and then really asking them, “What do you want for your child? What are your hopes?” And that’s all part of the IEP process, but it’s like, what else is there? This is the bare minimum of what your child should have access to. How can we do that plus more? And I want to set up — the reason I came back in particular was because it was a kindergarten, first, and second grade spot, and I want to be able to support families in learning how to advocate for their child and knowing what the expectations should be going forward. I want to set them up with high expectations, so if they move or when they transition, it’s like, “Well, actually, this has been happening. I don’t understand why you’re telling me it can’t.” So really educating parents too, in “you should have access to this. I’m on the same team as you. We’re gonna fight for this together.” And building that partnership in that way has helped a lot.

I know that there’s a lot of pressure and concern and just overall worry when you’re a parent in general. And then to have a child with a disability, I’m sure that comes with more. And I want them to be able to have their child go to school and them feel safe and trusted with who they’re with, and that that person also has the best interest for their kid holistically, beyond just that relationship, but school-wide and bigger. That I’m constantly advocating on my end to the district, or seeking out other opportunities to learn more information and to spread what we’re doing. All of that comes together to show parents, I think, that we’re not just talking about it, we’re doing it. And we want you to be a part of that with us.

Sue Wright: Yeah. And I think collaborating with parents is really awesome. And this year I have some parents that are initiating some of that collaboration, and it’s been really awesome. They created a coloring book about their child’s disability and felt that that would be a good way to introduce some of the behavior that maybe the students were witnessing and observing that they might have questions about. And so they created this book. The parent came into class with the child, and they were able to read the book about that disability, about that child, about that friend in their class, and it just made all the difference in the world.

And so when they asked if they could do that, I was all in, but I asked, “Would you mind making a copy for every child to take home?” Because then they have that story to tell to their families. And it was so well-received. The family that created the book got emails from families in the class thanking them for putting the book together, and one of the students actually wrote a thank you note to the child, complimenting the book and everything. And so that was just a really fun experience, to have the parents kind of step up and initiate that collaboration. This is who we are. This is who our child is. We just wanna have friends, you know? He just wants to be doing everything that you’re doing. It just might look differently. And it was just such an awesome lesson. We actually even took that into another of the kindergarten classrooms to share with them, because eventually these kids are gonna be kind of mixed up as they change grade levels, so it really is everybody’s friends. And that was just a neat experience this year.

Angela Macklin: I feel like we’ve done that too with, like, World Down Syndrome Day. We’ve partnered with parents, Autism Awareness and Acceptance Month. So I think highlighting some of those things. We’ve done intentional work with that around our school in general, and then I’ll have parents reach out, like, “Do you do anything for this?” And I’m like, “Oh, we do this. Let’s talk about how. Do you wanna be involved?” And some parents are more comfortable than others, but I think them knowing that those are things that we talk about. And I go in, and we do disability discussions in classrooms at the beginning of the year everywhere, every year, and we talk about disability and what it is and where they may have seen it before, and create those connections. So it’s cool because it ends up being a bridge off of that initial conversation. It doesn’t stop there. Our conversations expand into more of it.

And I even had, there was a little bit of a challenge the other day, and one of the students in your class, he was just having a challenging time, and he was able to take a break and feel better. You could tell he remembered the story.

Sue Wright: Yeah.

Angela Macklin: So it’s another way of, I feel like, de-stigmatizing so many things. Where we don’t talk about disability — no, we do talk about disability, ’cause we need to know about it. It’s a natural part of being a human. And creating that understanding and connection and familiarity and comfortability.

Sue Wright: Yeah. And oftentimes during parent conversations or conferences, parents will remark about, “Oh, this is the phrase I’m hearing,” and I’m like, “That’s awesome, because that’s what we’re teaching.” So kids are absorbing that and going home and using, “Oh, he’s just having a big feeling,” you know? They might be in the red zone. Or a lot of the words that we’re teaching about how to identify feelings and what you do, and that it’s all okay. So it’s really nice to be hearing a lot of what we teach being said at home, and actually taught at home too, by the kids.

Tim Villegas: I’ve got two more questions before the mystery question. So one is, is it a K–2 school or a K–5 school?

Angela Macklin: K–5.

Tim Villegas: K–5? Okay. You’d mentioned that your role is K–2?

Angela Macklin: Yes.

Tim Villegas: Is that right? Okay. So that’s one. Number two is, if you were to talk to a teacher who maybe is in a similar role, like an IEP case manager — or I think in Maryland they call them IEP chairs — somebody who’s kind of facilitating more than they are teaching, who wants to bring inclusive practices to their school, what advice would you give that teacher? And so that’s the first question, and you might be able to weave these two in. But the second question is about the support from administration. So what does that look like at Cottage Lake? And do you receive any additional support from the school district? So I guess those are my questions.

Angela Macklin: Yeah. I think if somebody wanted to start this work, the first thing I would say to them is it can be done. I think there’s a lot of people saying it can’t, or it won’t work, or it’s a lot easier to find why it won’t work. But it can be done, and it can’t all be done at once. Teachers, we want, like, here’s a this and then a this and then a this and then we’re here, right? I presented at the UDL Con over the summer and somebody was asking, “Okay, well, if I do this, then we’re here?” And I’m like, “Well, maybe.” This isn’t a step A to B to C. It’s gonna look different for what school you’re in, how many students you have, just the population of your students. What does the diversity in your students look like, and what does your staff look like? What is their familiarity? There are so many contributing factors of how it’s gonna roll out in your school. But try. Try, and be vulnerable that some things won’t work. I like to call it failing forward. Well, that didn’t work, but now I can move forward and find something different to do.

So what are some things that maybe seem low level but could be high stakes? One of those that comes to mind is, how are you using language in your school? Ableism is so embedded in many, many things we say and read and see. So where can you maybe focus on that and start pulling those things out? For example, most often you say the pledge, and prior to that someone says, “Stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.” And so I went to my administrator and I was like, “Hey, could we do stand or turn? That way we have options for a variety of people.” That’s just one way to break it apart, and she’s like, “Oh, yeah, that makes total sense.” Small thing, high leverage. We’ve just included other people in a daily practice routine. So what are some of those smaller things that you can think about? And then use that, and then it’s like, okay, we’ve started to grapple on this. We’ve started this little thing. Who else can I bring into this group?

So you cannot do it alone. I could not do it without Sue. That’s why I wanted her here. Who else is on your team? Who else can you share in that success and that hard work with? I think we both go to each other and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, this is so hard.” Or like, “Tell me what you think about this.” There are people that you have to confide in, and when things are hard, you need someone to cry with sometimes. Who’s there with you, and then how do you build that team of people and be more inclusive with that team of people?

And then my last thing would be, just be patient, because you want it all to happen because you know that it’s good and it’s gonna be better and you’re already seeing it. And you just wanna keep going. I think I could stay up all night coming up with all these cool ideas. But I have to be patient, because there’s only so much that anybody can try on, and I think what I’ve learned is I have this really big passion for this work. And so sometimes I dump it and I’m like, “We could do this and this and this,” and some people just aren’t ready for that, and that’s okay. So I’ve tried to learn to kind of tone it in a little bit: “I have to be patient. This will come. Where do I start the build?” Because when you’re in it, you’re in it, but I think you forget that some people are still on their journey.

So I think that would be my advice. Find a small, low leverage place to start and build on that. Learn a little bit more, and then how do you add people? How do you add ideas? How do you add failure and learn from it? And how do you learn patience? Because it’s gonna take some time. We’re on year four and I’m still like, “Oh, we have so much work to do.”

Sue Wright: And I think it’s a good reminder too, for somebody in a classroom with 20-plus kids all the time — and I love it and I’m learning — but Angela’s always reminding me, we all have a lot to learn. So I’m trying to get that mindset of, there’s not that end result, there’s not that place I’m gonna be that’s gonna make me feel like I’m really good, or I’ve got this handled. I just think I’m always gonna be in that mode where I’m learning new things all the time. So depending on the kids that I have in my classroom, like this year is a high learning curve for me, which professionally feels really awesome. And other years I was like, “Oh yeah, I got this. I’m used to these kinds of things.” So Angela’s always good at reminding me that it’s okay to still be learning and not be at the achievement or the expert level.

Tim Villegas: Right. Yeah.

Angela Macklin: And we know that everything we’re learning about disability is changing constantly, right?

Tim Villegas: Right, yeah, always new information and always different perspectives. So yeah. It’s awesome.

Angela and Sue had just made the case that this work starts small, one routine, one conversation, one teammate at a time. But before we wrapped up, there was one more thing I wanted to get to, and neither of them saw it coming. All right, you ready for the mystery question?

Angela Macklin: Yeah. Yes.

Tim Villegas: Okay. All right. I have a bunch of them. And I don’t remember any of them. All right, here we go. Interesting. What’s a story you love to tell? So it could be another story of inclusion, or it could just be a story that you like to tell. Like, I think I’ve told this before, somewhere on one episode, I told the story of how I stole my own car. Did I tell you? Have you heard that story?

Sue Wright: No. No.

Tim Villegas: I’ll tell it. If you’ve heard this before, I apologize. So I’ll tell the story, you think of a story that you like to tell, okay? I’ll try to make this short, ’cause I can make this one really long. So I went to college at Azusa Pacific University, and I lived off campus, and I usually drive on campus and park my car and stuff like that. And so I went to class, and then I went back home, and the next day I go out to where my car is usually parked, and it’s gone. It’s straight up gone. And I’m like, “Somebody stole my car.” So I report it stolen. I call my parents, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, my car is stolen,” and everything.

Well, a couple days later I go to campus and a friend of mine is like, “Hey, Vegas” — ’cause that was my nickname in college — “Hey Vegas, isn’t that your car with a bunch of stickers on the back parked over there?” And I suddenly remembered that it was raining and I drove my car over to campus instead of walking over to campus, and then I left class and it was not raining. So I just went home. And then the next day I had forgotten that I had driven the car over. I literally thought my car was stolen for two days. And so then I had to call my parents and be like, “Uh, yeah, so it was totally me. I stole my own car.” So I like to tell that story ’cause it’s just ridiculous, like, what were you thinking?

Sue Wright: That’s a good story. That is a good story. I’m glad you found your car.

Tim Villegas: I did, yeah. No car was stolen.

Sue Wright: That’s a great scenario. That’s awesome.

Tim Villegas: What about y’all?

Sue Wright: The one that’s popping into mind, when I started teaching, I went back to teaching as a second career for me. And so I just jumped in with two feet, ’cause I thought, “I’m gonna land in this and I’m gonna just do my thing starting off.” I just didn’t feel like I had a lot of time to build a career. I wanted to jump in with both feet and do it. So I got my first teaching job in third grade. And it was kind of at the last minute. The teacher was taking a medical leave, and I went and I was meeting with the colleague that she had, the grade level colleague. And I had my planner, and I wrote everything out, and I was ready to go. And that was on a Friday, and I took my planner and I got home. And I was thinking about it all weekend.

And I left on Monday morning for my very first day of my very first teaching job to find out I left my planner at home. So I had no plans and no experience behind me to start my day. So I thought, “You know, you can’t panic. You’re here. You’re gonna do this job.” So I went to my colleague and I’m like, “Left my planner at home. Walk me through our day again.” And I actually made it with no planner. But yeah, I just kind of jumped in the pond with not all the tools I needed.

Tim Villegas: Oh my gosh. Everyone remembers their first day. Oh my gosh. Thank you. What I’m thinking, like—

Angela Macklin: Why don’t you just pull it up on Google?

Sue Wright: Yeah. We didn’t have laptops.

Tim Villegas: You’re like, “Oh, my—” Back in the day, no.

Sue Wright: It was not on Google. It’s not a thing. It is on now. It is on Google now though. Yeah.

Angela Macklin: Oh. I have a lot of forgetting stories, ’cause that’s just me by nature. But one that I think I will always remember is my first year of teaching, I had my very first observation. And I think I was doing some type of social skills lesson. And I had a student, and I remember the principal sitting right there, and she’s taking all her notes. And he’s just following me around with his shoe off of his foot, with his shoe in my face, saying, “Smell shoe. Shoe smell. Smell shoe. Shoe, shoe. Smell it. Shoe smell.” And I’m like, “Not right now. We’re doing…” And trying so hard to redirect. And she’s reading her observation notes. It was hysterical.

Sue Wright: Like living it again.

Angela Macklin: And I was just trying to move and redirect and try to… And it was my first year, so I was nervous as all get out for my first evaluation. And like this large child with a very large shoe just following me around, asking me to smell his shoes. That was… I mean, there’s so many stories, but I think that one will probably always stick. I remember that.

Tim Villegas: Awesome. Oh, great. I’m glad we got those stories out into the world so everyone can enjoy them. Angela Macklin and Sue Wright, thank you so much for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast. Great conversation.

Sue Wright: Yeah, it was great. Thank you.

Tim Villegas: That was Angela Macklin and Sue Wright. Here’s what I’m taking with me. Angela said their school went from an us and a them to we are a we, and nobody handed them a plan to get there. They started, failed forward, and built on top of what worked. I also keep thinking about her phrase, “Small thing, high leverage.” Changing “stand for the pledge” to “stand or turn” took just one conversation, and suddenly a daily routine included everyone. It’s not just about big systems change. It’s 100 small choices that add up to one.

One practical step for educators: find your Sue. Angela was clear she couldn’t do this work alone. So identify one colleague you can confide in, celebrate with, and build alongside, and start meeting regularly the way Angela meets with grade-level teams every week. Share this episode with a colleague who’s building inclusive schools. Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and follow Think Inclusive wherever you get your podcasts. If you have something to share, you can always email me at tvillegas@mcie.org.

Now, let’s roll the credits. Think Inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. This show is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Writing help from Claude, editing by Rey From Internet, scheduling and extra production help from Jill Wagoner. Our original music is by Miles Kredich with extra vibes from Melod.ie. Big thanks to our sponsors, IXL and Adaptiverse. Visit ixl.com/inclusive and adaptiverseapp.com. If you’ve made it this far, you’re officially part of the Think Inclusive inclusion crew.

Want to help us keep moving the needle for inclusion? Head to mcie.org and click the Donate button. Give $5, $10, $20. It helps us keep partnering with schools and districts to move inclusive practices forward and support educators doing the work. Find us on the socials almost everywhere @thinkinclusive.

Thanks for hanging out, and remember, inclusion always works.