Building Inclusive Schools: From Belief to Practice with Michelle Gardner ~ 1328

Michelle Gardner
I think one of the things that we’ve learned over the years of doing this work is that there’s not a single educator that wants to exclude and wants to segregate and wants to not embrace diversity in their classroom.

However, the ask is big, particularly for staff members who have been doing things for a long time a certain way. It creates this cognitive dissonance that I talk about sometimes, where I’ve had these words said to me directly: “Are you telling me I’ve done my job wrong all of these years?”

We went from 60% of our students spending 80% or more of the day to 82%. And so having 82% of our students with disabilities in general education for 80% or more of the day, I think that speaks volumes to the fact that it can be done. And the work wasn’t done when I retired and joined All In.

The work continues under their new leadership, and they’re still plugging away and looking closely at different environments and how we are providing support and in what ways we can transition that support into general education. But I think you have to really, really believe in it to be committed to the work and understand that it takes years and years and years to change a system and to change the mindset.

Tim Villegas
Hey friends. Welcome back to Think Inclusive: real conversations about building schools where every learner belongs. I’m your host, Tim Villegas.

Today’s episode is about what it really takes to move inclusive education from a belief that we hold to a practice we live out in our schools. This conversation is all about systems change: how schools and districts shift mindset, build capacity, and stay in the work long enough for real change to take root. If you’re an educator or leader who believes in inclusion but feels the weight of turning that belief into action, this episode is for you.

Our guest today is Michelle Gardner, interim CEO at All In for Inclusive Education, formerly known as NJCIE. Michelle has spent more than 25 years in New Jersey public schools, serving in roles ranging from paraprofessional and special education teacher to assistant principal and director of special services.

She’s also taught future educators for nearly two decades as an adjunct instructor at The College of New Jersey and has been recognized statewide for her leadership in inclusive education. We talk about how inclusive change actually happens, why teachers matter so much in leading that work, how leaders can support staff without pushing too fast, and what it looks like to stay focused on students while navigating fear, resistance, and fatigue.

Michelle also reflects on how her own thinking has evolved over time and what keeps her hopeful right now.

Before we meet our guest, I want to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by IXL. IXL is an all‑in‑one platform for K–12 that helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress in one place.

As students practice, IXL adapts to their individual needs so that every learner gets just‑right support and challenge. And each student gets a personalized learning plan to close gaps. Check it out at ixl.com/inclusive. That’s ixl.com/inclusive.

Alright, after a quick break, it’s time to think inclusive with Michelle Gardner. Catch you on the other side.

Tim Villegas
Michelle Gardner, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast.

Michelle Gardner
Happy to be here with you, Tim.

Tim Villegas
Alright, let’s talk about All In, Michelle. I didn’t prep you with this question, but let’s just roll with it.

At MCIE and Think Inclusive, on the podcast we talk to a lot of technical assistance providers that do very similar work to us, and All In is one of those organizations. So if you were meeting someone for the first time and you were saying, “I’m the executive director for All In,” and they’re like, “What’s All In?” how would you answer that question?

Michelle Gardner
So All In for Inclusive Education is a nonprofit. I’m currently the interim CEO, and our work is really centered around supporting educators and administrators in our public schools to facilitate systemic change, to provide technical assistance, as you mentioned. And that’s usually via coaching, consultation, and professional development.

The bulk of our work is done in the state of New Jersey, but we also venture out beyond our borders. And we also now have an organization that’s joined us called Urban Collaborative. They’re now Urban Collaborative at All In, and they focus on inclusion in urban school settings.

Collectively, all of that work is really meant to move the needle around least restrictive environment and students with disabilities having access to all that their peers have access to in our public schools, with the acknowledgement— as I’m sure most of your listeners are aware— that we are not doing a really great job in this country including students with disabilities in their local public schools in general education.

Educators and administrators and families all need support in making some improvements there. We do fee‑based work, but we also do work called the New Jersey Inclusion Project, and that’s via a grant with the Department of Education here in New Jersey.

It is a really exciting project that’s been going on now for five years, and we’ve seen change really happening in many schools throughout the state that have been part of the project.

Tim Villegas
Great. That’s great. What’s interesting, and like I said before, our organizations are very similar in the way that we’re funded and the way we operate.

Sometimes people go, “Why doesn’t Texas have a coalition for inclusive education?” or “Why doesn’t Indiana?” or “Why doesn’t Idaho?” Pick your state. I just think it’s really interesting that we geographically are so close and also our work is so similar.

From what I remember and know about our histories, both of them happened organically. It wasn’t like this planned thing. So I wonder, how would you tell your origin story?

Michelle Gardner
We were really a grassroots organization that was started by parents, primarily parents in a very specific region of New Jersey, who were looking for their children with Down syndrome to be included in their public schools.

That’s how it started. And over time, it really became an organization that not only supports parents—of course, they’re an incredibly important part of this picture—but our work really began to focus on schools and working directly with schools to provide the support that they need to do that successfully, to do that with integrity, and to make sure all children were benefiting from that experience.

Tim Villegas
Great. Thank you. Thank you for that context.

So if you’re listening and you’re like, “How did these organizations start?” Parent grassroots movement. And it evolved and became what it is today. That might give you some ideas.

I’d like to talk about when you think about the work of All In. What’s a story of a recent win that kind of signifies what All In is all about?

Michelle Gardner
I love the wins, Tim. I love them. And really, the wins happen sort of every day, sometimes in short conversations and small moments.

But sometimes you see momentum build, and it becomes very exciting. We recently honored a school last spring that’s working in the New Jersey Inclusion Project. They’re one of our systemic change sites.

That school‑based team really embraced systemic change, and they really understood the call to action. They gave out advocacy awards to staff. They turnkeyed professional development to their colleagues in the summer. They developed an inclusion update newsletter, and they changed their LRE in one year from 50% of their students spending 80% of the time in general education to 60%.

A 10% increase in one year is really impressive. And all of this was truly led by teachers. I think sometimes we forget the power of colleagues.

Once those teachers on the school‑based team really embraced all of this and understood their mission, they took it to heart. It shows in their numbers, and it shows in the work that they’re doing.

Tim Villegas
Wow. Could you just repeat the LRE change?

Michelle Gardner
Sure.

Tim Villegas
Again, one more time.

Michelle Gardner
Thinking of that top tier of LRE—students with a disability spending 80% or more of their day in general education—they started with an LRE rate of around 50%. And by the end of the first year in systemic change, they had bumped that up to 60%.

And that’s really the goal of our work, to impact that number, to see more and more students with disabilities spending more and more time in general education.

Tim Villegas
Wow. Ten percent is huge. In one year. Wow.

I have a little side question about the LRE number in this particular school. If you feel like you can talk about it, what was their priority in how to do that? What was the overarching strategy in how they were successful in moving that number?

Michelle Gardner
I think it all comes down to our process when we begin facilitating change. The first thing we’re doing is bringing awareness—awareness of laws and research, as I’m sure you do in Maryland—and getting people to understand where we are and why we might need to improve.

We talk about beliefs and what people believe about students with disabilities and about students in general, and we begin digging into that. Sometimes that information can be surprising to educators and administrators.

I’ve worked with some schools where we use a beliefs survey, and when people look at the responses, they’re pretty shocked at how their colleagues are answering. But it gives you a starting point: Where are we, and what are we going to begin to tackle first?

Obviously, we can’t tackle everything at once. That’s when the conversations begin about what’s happening in general education. Do we have the capacity? And if we don’t, what training and support do educators need to have the capacity to receive diverse learners in that classroom?

Then we look at individual students. It’s not about shutting down rooms. It’s looking at individual students and what supports and services they need in a general education classroom to successfully achieve their IEP goals.

When you take that approach and you’re not just coming in to put the hammer down and say you’re closing your resource rooms or whatever it might be, educators can get on board and understand that we’re being meticulous and trying to change things for all children for good—not just in a moment of change that’s going to revert back to where we were when All In steps out the door in a few years.

It’s also honoring where people are. We don’t apply the same method to every school. We honor the context and the culture of that district, who’s been working there for a long time and who hasn’t, what the beliefs are of the community and the parents, and we try to work from where they are, just like we ask people to do for our students.

Tim Villegas
So when a district—let’s say a district—is not as on board or not quickly changing their mind and practices with regard to inclusive placement and inclusive practices, how do you start moving the needle for those folks so they feel like they can make change?

Michelle Gardner
I think one of the things that we’ve learned over the years of doing this work is that there’s not a single educator I’ve met who wants to exclude, who wants to segregate, who wants to not embrace diversity in their classroom.

However, the ask is big, particularly for staff members who have been doing things a certain way for a long time. It creates this cognitive dissonance that I talk about sometimes. I’ve had these words said to me directly: “Are you telling me I’ve done my job wrong all of these years?”

Right? Nobody likes that feeling. So we have to approach it with some grace and understanding that staff members may be feeling like that. It’s not that someone’s been doing something the wrong way. It’s that we all have to evolve with what we now understand about what education should be and what the civil rights of children with disabilities are, and how we honor that while also supporting staff members.

Sometimes it’s really candid one‑on‑one conversations. But again, I go back to that school‑based team. When we have educators on that team, they can be champions for what we’re expecting everyone else to do. They can serve as models, they can serve as coaches, and they can be a support system for their colleagues as they’re frustrated along the way or questioning the practices they’re being asked to engage in.

Those colleagues are the best support system versus an administrator or us as an outside agency coming in and telling people what to do. When we develop those school‑based teams, we really like to have people who can live this dream that we have for children with disabilities.

Tim Villegas
After the break, we dig into what it looks like to lead inclusive change from the inside, especially when not everyone is on board. Michelle shares how districts can build momentum, support educators through uncertainty, and keep students at the center while navigating the very real challenges of systems change.

This episode is sponsored by Adaptiverse. If you’re a special education teacher, you already know the time problem. Every week, educators spend 15 to 20 hours manually adapting curriculum for students with complex communication needs, non‑speaking learners, AAC users, and students with apraxia or language‑based disabilities. Creating personalized materials, building visual supports, and designing multiple expressive pathways is essential work, but it’s exhausting.

And it pulls teachers away from actually teaching. Adaptiverse changes that. Teachers simply describe what they’re teaching and who they’re teaching, and the platform generates grade‑level lessons personalized to each student, with built‑in scaffolds and multiple ways to show understanding.

These aren’t watered‑down worksheets. They’re rigorous, engaging lessons that presume competence. Built on 60‑plus years of combined education experience, Adaptiverse has already powered more than 2,000 lessons in 35 states, with educators calling it lifesaving and irreplaceable.

If you’re ready to get those hours back and focus on what matters most, visit adaptiverseapp.com to learn more. That’s adaptiverseapp.com.

Yeah, I love that. We were recently at the TASH conference in Denver at the end of 2025, and we were in a session where one of the things that got brought up about constructing these school‑based or district‑based leadership teams that are spearheading the work is that the people on those teams are typically early adopters, or the ones who are passionate about the work and want to see it move forward.

I think it’s easy to forget that there’s the diffusion of innovation. Ring a bell?

Yes. I’m certainly no expert, but if you have 100 people, not everyone is going to be on board or passionate about the thing you’re talking about. There’s natural variance in how people respond, and how do you work with that?

I think it’s important to remember that and not just say, “Why don’t you think this way?” It’s going to take some time for some people.

Michelle Gardner
Yes, yes. And one of the things we debate sometimes internally is who you have on that team. Who do you have on that school‑based team, or for some places, a district team?

Sometimes there’s an urge to place a complete non‑believer on that team in the hope that the team will adjust their beliefs. What we’ve found historically—I don’t have research to back this up—is that it tends to stall the work of the team.

Having early adopters on that team can really drive the change forward and serve as models and a support system for those who aren’t early adopters. We often encourage schools, when they’re developing that team, to include people who are at least ready to do the work and think they might believe in it, even if they’re not sure yet.

We want individuals who can help drive the change forward rather than stall it with ongoing, repetitive conversations about their own belief system.

Tim Villegas
Yeah, that’s a great point. Another question I didn’t prep you for.

Michelle Gardner
That’s okay. I like to do that, Michelle.

Tim Villegas
I’m so sorry. For anyone listening, I almost always give questions to guests, but as we’re talking, I try to put myself in the seat of the listener. When questions come up, I think someone listening might want to ask this.

I’m curious about how you, Michelle, are connected to this work. You talked about the origin story of All In, formerly NJCIE, but where do you fit in with inclusive practices and advocating for this?

Michelle Gardner
I would love to tell you about my journey, Tim. I’m not a spring chicken, and when I went to college and entered the workforce as a special education teacher, I’ll be very honest—my mindset was not inclusive.

I wanted my own little classroom. I wanted my own group of students. That’s where I saw myself as a special educator. Of course, I’ve since had a journey into an inclusive mindset through experiences and training.

I had a student when I was a special education teacher whose general education teacher wanted him in her class much of the day. It was a big concern of mine. He had behavioral needs, and I couldn’t fathom it.

At the end of the day, she said, “Let him in.” I let him in. I provided support. We brainstormed. We didn’t have co‑planning periods. We connected in the hall, talked after school, grabbed each other at lunch.

It was an incredibly successful experience because of that collaboration and her commitment to making her classroom a place where she taught to diversity. She didn’t have a co‑teacher. I was in a self‑contained classroom, so we weren’t co‑teaching.

That’s where my journey really started. My teaching years were spent with children with autism and intellectual and developmental disabilities. It made me think about what opportunities my students hadn’t had and what opportunities they could have.

Over the years, I became frustrated with opportunities they didn’t have or how they had to earn their way into general education, which didn’t sit right with me. I wasn’t reading the research at that point in my career.

Then I became an administrator and spent my last 12 years in public education as a director of special services. That’s when you have the opportunity to affect change. I spent 10 years engaged in systemic change with the support of the administrative team, parents, educators, and, in New Jersey, our child study teams—psychologists, social workers, learning consultants—all working collaboratively.

We did really hard work, looking at general education, making sure people understood what special education was and how we were delivering it, refining models of special education services. There were many days that were very hard, and I questioned what I was doing and why.

But over the course of 10 years, we went from 60% of our students spending 80% or more of the day in general education to 82%. Having 82% of our students with disabilities in general education for 80% or more of the day speaks volumes to the fact that it can be done.

The work wasn’t done when I retired and joined All In. The work continues under new leadership. They’re still plugging away, looking closely at environments and how support is provided and transitioned into general education.

You really have to believe in it to be committed to the work and understand that it takes years and years to change a system and mindset. There are early adopters and never adopters. I had some never adopters, and that’s the reality of change.

That first year, we really just talked about LRE, inclusion, laws, and research to give everyone a base understanding. It was never about closing resource rooms or self‑contained classrooms. It was about building the capacity of general education to receive students and the capacity of special educators to provide services anywhere.

Tim Villegas
Yeah. And this was in your last position—your last position was in New Jersey, right?

Michelle Gardner
Right.

Tim Villegas
Yes. Okay. Yeah. Mm‑hmm. Mm‑hmm.

Gosh, a couple things floating around in my head. The first is, I think it’s interesting, the context of you being a special education teacher and then becoming a director of special services, and then doing the work in that role.

I’m thinking of all of the people who listen to the podcast, and also directors of special education in general, who are out there feeling the tension of, “I know we could do something better for learners. I know we can. I just don’t know what to do or where to start.”

I’m wondering if we could take a couple minutes. If you could talk to those particular people—directors of special education—who really want to move this forward but don’t know how to approach it. They’re not sure the superintendent or other district leaders are going to be on board, and they’re looking at all of the never adopters and thinking, “I don’t know how to tackle this.” I’d love for you to talk to them for a little bit.

Michelle Gardner
Of course. First and foremost, as an administrator, you have to find at least one ally on the administrative team—possibly a building principal—someone you can really build a relationship with.

I was very lucky to have a colleague who was the principal of our early childhood center who had very strong alignment with my beliefs and philosophy around educating children. It didn’t mean we didn’t have disagreements or engage in lengthy, highly emotional discussions, but Annie was somebody I knew whose building could be a place where I could implement things and say, “Look, this works.”

Having at least one ally on the administrative team is really important.

Also, getting some of this work into a district strategic plan is powerful. Here in New Jersey, districts have to update their strategic plans every five years. We have 600 school districts, so that’s 600 strategic plans.

I found the strategic plan to be a very powerful tool. We got a goal in there around increasing opportunities in general education for students with disabilities. The goal wasn’t shutting down programs; it was building the capacity of general education. All of our activities revolved around that.

When it came to budget decisions, program decisions, and staffing, it created a smoother path for me to say, “This is a priority because it’s in the strategic plan.” Occasionally, not often, I had to hire another staff member, and I could refer back to the plan.

If we were making decisions about changes in schools, grade levels, curriculum, or programs, we could always refer back to the strategic plan. It also ensured that the Board of Education was fully aware of what we were trying to do and could support those decisions.

The other major part was the willingness of my team to constantly engage in professional development and coaching. It’s not about saying, “This is what we’re doing. Best of luck.”

It’s about asking, “What do you need?” We had a moment where some of our world language teachers weren’t sure how they could support the growing population of students with disabilities in their classrooms. They needed professional development, so we provided a three‑part series on including students with disabilities in the world language classroom, and it was really successful.

It was always about supporting educators. Any director or administrator engaging in systemic change has to be deeply committed to professional development. Yes, you’ll need subs. Yes, you’ll need to carve out time during district in‑service days. But you need that commitment.

And it has to be followed up with coaching—going into classrooms, providing support—and reflected in teacher observations and evaluations. If things aren’t happening, they need to be addressed through problem‑solving, not by excluding classrooms. If a teacher is struggling to support students with disabilities, they’re likely struggling to support any kind of diversity.

Our classrooms continue to become more diverse than ever.

Tim Villegas
Yeah. I want to highlight a nuance you brought up about messaging change. We’re not taking away classrooms like self‑contained classrooms. That’s not the message. The message is we’re equipping teachers to serve more students.

When we frame it as “segregated self‑contained classes need to cease to exist,” even if we believe that, people don’t hear what we’re going to do instead. They hear that something is being taken away. I think that’s really important to realize as we move through the change process. Is that something you see?

Michelle Gardner
Yes. Communication skills are some of the most important skills when engaging in change.

People hear what they want to hear or what their emotions drive them to hear. Many educators have experienced change implemented without a support system or infrastructure. So when they hear “we’re going to change things,” their immediate response is fear.

Most educators want to do their jobs well. Our messaging has to be transparent: we’re going to give you what you need to be successful. And there has to be two‑way communication where educators can say when they’re not getting what they need.

What worked for us was having open lines of communication. We surveyed people, sometimes anonymously, so they could share their true thoughts, and then we responded with support to the best of our ability.

Tim Villegas
We touched briefly on families, and I want to come back to that. Our organizations focus heavily on technical assistance for educators and districts, but how does All In approach family engagement?

Michelle Gardner
One of the things I will say is that families are probably the strongest indicator of our success in sharing our beliefs and our understanding of the laws and the research.

When families are fighting for inclusive placements for their children, I feel like that’s a check mark on the path to success. What I’ve found in many places is that families don’t know what they don’t know. Families are often basing their evaluation of the effectiveness of a program for their child on input from the medical community, or from a friend in another town.

We still have a very strong belief system, at least here in New Jersey, that separate is better. One of our jobs as an organization and as people trying to change the landscape is to help parents understand what they should expect from their child’s schooling.

If a separate setting feels better right now because the general education classroom isn’t equipped, I can understand and honor that. At the same time, we have to begin asking for better opportunities, better classrooms, better‑equipped educators, and administrators who understand general education frameworks like UDL and MTSS so they can hold teachers accountable.

One thing we offer for free is training for families. In New Jersey, every district is required to have a special education parent advisory group. We provide free training that shares information about the law, research, and where the state is. We’re not saying anyone is doing anything wrong, but we’re giving families the information they need.

Often, when I present for one of those meetings, I’ll present district‑specific data so everyone has the same information. Families can then decide where they want to take that information.

During my time as a director, my best support system was parents. They had expectations for high‑quality general education where their children could thrive and achieve their IEP goals. Anything less than that became an issue, and I’m glad it did.

Families are a key component of systemic change. In our systemic change work, usually in year two or three, we require that a parent be invited to some meetings to serve as a representative on the team and share a perspective educators don’t always have access to.

Tim Villegas
On the school‑based team or the district team?

Michelle Gardner
On the school‑based team.

Tim Villegas
Mm‑hmm. Okay. That’s great.

I had a question and then I lost it. I think it was about LRE data. For anyone listening who doesn’t know, that’s all public data. You can usually find it on your state department website, though it’s often hidden behind many clicks.

Michelle Gardner
We have a new data dashboard in New Jersey that’s interactive. You can access LRE data for the state, county, or district. You can look at it by race and ethnicity, disability category, and grade level.

That’s been helpful for talking about data at both the state and district level. Many people don’t even know that data exists.

I will mention that New Jersey is currently ranked 50th out of 50 states in LRE rate for students with disabilities. That’s alarming, especially given that we provide extraordinary public education in many ways. Even a never adopter can look at that data and say there’s room to improve.

Tim Villegas
Yeah. Absolutely.

We’ve talked about a lot, and I know I skipped over some questions. Is there something we haven’t talked about that you wish I’d asked?

Michelle Gardner
I want to acknowledge the momentum I’m seeing and feeling. Compared to 10 or 15 years ago, there’s a heightened awareness of LRE. Even if people don’t know the term, they know we’re talking about inclusion more.

Disability is slowly becoming part of the broader diversity conversation instead of a separate one. I teach college and have for 18 years, and I’ve seen a shift in my undergraduate and graduate students—their beliefs and advocacy have changed.

I think we’re on the precipice of a changing world, but we can’t let our foot off the gas. We’re finally having these conversations with a bigger audience, and they need to continue.

I have a four‑year‑old grandson with autism and a two‑year‑old grandson. My hopes and dreams for them are the same. I want people to embrace and understand all the extraordinary things about my grandson with autism that can get lost in a medical model.

Many families feel this way when they’re caught in our system. We need the system, but it has to adjust to see disability as part of human diversity. Without diversity, we’re boring, and our schools need to shift.

Tim Villegas
Yes. I love the hopefulness in your voice. I feel it too. We’ve come a long way in the last 10, 15, 20 years, and I think it’s going to keep growing.

Thanks, Michelle, for being here and sharing your story and the story of All In. I’d like to wrap up with a mystery question. Are you ready?

Michelle Gardner
I’m ready.

Tim Villegas
We’ve talked about inclusive change and systems shifting. Before we wrap up, let’s lighten things up. It’s time for a mystery question that takes us back to childhood.

I have a fresh crop of questions here—this one was written by my daughter. What was your favorite breakfast cereal when you were a kid?

Michelle Gardner
That is so easy. Lucky Charms.

And I’ll tell you a fun story. The best part is the marshmallows. One year, an administrative assistant I worked with my entire career got me a bag of just the marshmallows. I do not recommend eating large volumes of those. Too much sugar.

Tim Villegas
That sounds dangerous.

Michelle Gardner
But yes, Lucky Charms.

Tim Villegas
Oh my gosh. Okay. I would say for me—my mom sometimes listens, so sorry, Mom. I’m not trying to disparage you or anything.

Growing up, we had all the healthy stuff. We did not have any of the fun cereal. It was Cheerios, not even Honey Nut Cheerios. That was special. Raisin Bran. Just a lot of health stuff. We drank skim milk.

So anyway, it’s fine. I’m fine. But when I went to college, it was a different story.

Michelle Gardner
You discovered a new life, didn’t you?

Tim Villegas
Because then I could get my own cereal. My favorite when I was in college was Cap’n Crunch. That was the jam. All of us liked Cap’n Crunch, but it’s really hard on your teeth. You’d let the milk soak in it so it was a little easier to eat.

It was my absolute favorite. I cannot have Cap’n Crunch anymore. It tears the roof of my mouth up.

Michelle Gardner
Yes.

Tim Villegas
Yeah. Do you like the kind with the berries, or just the original?

Michelle Gardner
Just the original.

Tim Villegas
Yep. That was my cereal back when I was a teenager.

Michelle Gardner
It’s delicious too. I really don’t discriminate against any cereal. I love every sweet cereal there is. I have a sweet tooth. Lucky Charms and Cap’n Crunch for the win.

Tim Villegas
There you go. If you’re listening to this, we’d love to know what your favorite cereal was when you were a kid. If you’re listening or watching on YouTube, put it in the comments, or you can email me at tvillegas@mcie.org. I’d love to know, and I’ll share it with Michelle.

Alright. Good stuff. I’m going to sign us off, but don’t hang out.

Michelle Gardner
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Tim Villegas
Alright, Michelle Gardner, thank you so much for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast. Best of luck in 2026.

That was Michelle Gardner. One thing I’m really sitting with after this conversation is how much inclusive change depends on patience and honesty—not just about the system, but about ourselves. Michelle talked openly about how beliefs shift over time and how real progress happens when we stop trying to fix people and instead build the conditions where educators can grow, collaborate, and feel supported.

That really connects with MCIE’s work around breaking down silos and designing schools that account for learner variability from the start, not as an add‑on. Inclusion isn’t about taking something away. It’s about building capacity so more students belong in the places they already call home.

One practical step for educators: take a look at where decisions are getting made in your school—on a team, in a meeting, or through data—and ask who’s not in the room. Inviting the right voices, especially educators, families, and even students, can remove barriers you didn’t even realize were there.

Share this episode with a colleague who’s building inclusive schools. Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and follow Think Inclusive wherever you get your podcasts.

Shout‑out to Artemis II, heading back into our atmosphere on April 10. Safe travels, everyone. Now let’s roll the credits.

Think Inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. I write, edit, mix, master—I basically wear all the podcast hats and baseball caps. This show is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education, with scheduling and extra production help from Jill Wagoner.

Our original music is by Miles Kredich, with extra vibes from Melod.ie. Big thanks to our sponsors, IXL and Adaptiverse. Visit ixl.com/inclusive and adaptiverseapp.com.

Fun fact: as we speak, the Artemis II crew is still up in space. One of the things they keep coming back to is how connected we all are. Astronaut Victor Glover said, “You are on a spaceship called Earth, created to give us a place to live in the universe,” reminding us that we are special in all of this emptiness. No matter how far away they seem, looking back at Earth, the message is clear: we really do have to get through this together.

Are you as excited about space things as I am? I’d love to know. Email me at tvillegas@mcie.org. I read every single message, and if you’ve made it this far, you’re officially part of the Think Inclusive Inclusion Crew.

Want to help us keep moving the needle forward for inclusion? Head to mcie.org and click the donate button. Give $5, $10, $20. It helps us keep partnering with schools and districts to move inclusive practices forward and support educators doing the work.

Find us on the socials almost everywhere at Think Inclusive, and thanks for hanging out. Remember, inclusion always works.