Centering Disabled Students’ Voices for True Inclusion and Justice with Dom Kelly ~ 1327

Dom Kelly
I would ask every school leader to listen to their disabled students, believe them when they tell you what they need. And then make sure that they’re at the table. Make sure that their voices are centered in decisions that are made about their lives, their education. Even the most well-intentioned adults can believe that they need to be a voice for disabled students. And disabled students have the right, and they deserve, to be a part of decisions that impact them. Listen to them and include them.

I think when I think about disability justice, I’m thinking about policing in schools, how the data shows that that disproportionately harms disabled students, and not just disabled students, but Black disabled students and brown disabled students. That is an intersection that is most often harmed by oppressive systems.

There’s a reason why they’ve been pushing for private school vouchers, more and more money for private school vouchers, and defunding public schools for years. It’s all connected. And private schools can discriminate against disabled kids legally. This has been a long game for people who do not want all of our students to be educated in the same way.

Tim Villegas
Hey friends. Welcome back to Think Inclusive: Real Conversations about building schools where every learner belongs. I’m your host, Tim Villegas. Today’s episode is about what it really means to move beyond compliance and towards justice. When we talk about disability in schools, we’re digging into how inclusion connects to bigger questions about safety, belonging, voice, and who gets to shape the systems students move through every day.

This conversation is especially for educators and leaders who feel the tension between what the law requires and what students actually need to thrive. Our guest today is Dom Kelly, the co-founder, president, and CEO of New Disabled South and New Disabled South Rising.

Dom is one of a set of triplets with cerebral palsy and has been a disability advocate his entire life. He’s a nonprofit leader, organizer, and systems thinker who brings lived experience and movement building together in powerful ways. Dom is also an Atlantic Fellow for Health Equity, a Rockwood Leading from the Inside Out Fellow, and a recipient of the JM Kaplan Fund Innovation Prize.

He lives in Atlanta with his wife, Catie, and their daughter, Mahalia. We talk about the difference between disability rights and disability justice and why that distinction matters in schools. Dom shares what school leaders often miss when inclusion gets reduced to placement or paperwork, how listening to disabled students can shift entire systems, and why schools have to account for students’ full lives, not just what happens during the school day.

Along the way, Dom shares a surprising part of his story, including how years of touring as a musician helped shape the way he thinks about advocacy and organizing.

Before we meet our guest, I want to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by IXL. IXL is an all-in-one platform for K–12 that helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress in one place. As students practice, IXL adapts to their individual needs so every learner gets just-right support and challenge, and each student gets a personalized learning plan to close gaps. Check it out at ixl.com/inclusive. Again, that’s ixl.com/inclusive.

All right, after a quick break, it’s time to think inclusive with Dom Kelly. Catch you on the other side.

Tim Villegas
Dom Kelly, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast.

Dom Kelly
Thank you for having me.

Tim Villegas
Dom, I want to jump right in, and I want to know what sparked your initial commitment to disability advocacy. Let’s start there.

Dom Kelly
Well, in some ways I don’t feel like I had much of a choice. I have cerebral palsy, and I’ve been disabled since birth. And I’m also a triplet, and my two triplet brothers were both diagnosed with CP when we were a year old. So, yeah, it kind of feels like I had to learn how to advocate for myself first and foremost.

I also had parents, particularly my mom, who was a big advocate. She worked in the field and also had three disabled kids. She was somebody who understood that as a parent she didn’t need to center herself, but that she wanted to center us and our experience, make sure that we knew how to tell our own story and use our own voice. So it was instilled in me at a very young age.

But I think the first moment I remember kind of getting bit by the bug was when I was four years old and my mom put me and my brothers in front of a room full of high school seniors and basically said, “Tell your story. Good luck.” And her intention was just like, you’re going to learn how to tell the world who you are before someone else tries to do it for you.

And so, yeah, I think that was the first moment I remember feeling really empowered and excited to get to just talk about who I am and about my disability and about being proud of being disabled.

And then when I was six, my fraternal triplet brother died. And I think that, for me, his life, his short life, really motivated me to continue to do this as a career and continue to do it in different facets of my career, all the different places it’s gone. The constant has always been being an advocate.

Tim Villegas
Yeah. Well, when you put it that way, I guess you’re right. You didn’t really have a choice. I’m interested—you said four years old, and your mom had set this up for you. What was the context, if you don’t mind me asking? High school seniors, four years old—how did that happen?

Dom Kelly
Yeah, there was an emerging program in the school district. They called it Celebration of Capabilities. And in retrospect, I don’t love the name, but at the time it was really something that I don’t think had really existed.

They were doing a lot of things that I wouldn’t do today, like simulations of disabilities, things like that. But my mom had been involved in getting that off the ground with some folks who worked in special ed in the school district. And my mom was very well known in the school district, in the state of New York where I was born, in the special ed world.

She was the lady who would beat someone down for her kids. That was her. She was just super involved and basically was like, “Yeah, my kids will talk to some high schoolers. Sounds good to me.” And so, yeah, it was just that she was a part of bringing this program to life and then really encouraged us to be a part of it.

Tim Villegas
I see. I get it.

Something I did not know about you until recently is that you’ve had quite an extensive music career. I’m sure you’ve talked a lot about it, so I would love to know—and being a musician myself, playing in bands in high school, college, and beyond—I’m just curious, how did that life prepare you for your work now?

Dom Kelly
In a lot of ways, I was actually just thinking this morning, I’ve traveled every week for the last six or seven weeks, and I was like, man, I haven’t traveled like this since I was on the road. So I think in that way, that really prepared me, although it’s vastly different.

Aside from that, I was in a band with my brothers—my identical brother and my younger brother, who’s three years younger. We started making records and touring. We started the band when I was about 12, just about 13. We were 12. I was 12.

We made our first record when I was like 13. It was really terrible, but somehow some people seemed to like it. And by the time I was 14 or 15, we were playing shows regularly and then started touring. We were homeschooled, and we were touring through high school.

I think that experience helped me be an entrepreneur. I was running a business when I was a teenager. And while I had no idea what I was doing, it was really empowering to get to learn how to do something that I had dreamed about doing.

Besides the fact that I run an organization that I founded now, and that’s a very different kind of business, it’s still running a business. I think it helped me see that it was possible to figure out how to carve my own path.

A lot of disabled people have to carve their own paths just by nature of being disabled and having to innovate and think creatively, but also because the world and our society don’t really provide opportunity for disabled folks in the way that they do non-disabled folks. So I had to learn how to do something myself.

I was touring with artists that I really admired and loved, folks who paired their art with their activism—Indigo Girls, Joan Baez, Toad the Wet Sprocket, The Bangles, and a lot of others. I was growing up, teens and early twenties, getting to be in their orbit and learn from them.

They showed me how you could be a musician and organize and mobilize people, and you can write about things you care about. The advocacy was always there. I was always doing that in some way. And then I was like 17, and I got politicized, and that was really because of those folks that I played music with.

So now, in my activism and the work that I do, I really credit Indigo Girls, Joan, and some others for being the reason why I’m in this, because they really showed me it’s possible.

Tim Villegas
You were radicalized by the Indigo Girls. Is that what I’m hearing?

Dom Kelly
Definitely. Definitely was.

Tim Villegas
That’s amazing.

Dom Kelly
Absolutely was.

Tim Villegas
After the break, Dom and I dig into what disability justice looks like in real schools, beyond laws and paperwork. While listening to disabled students has to be the center of inclusion, we also talk about safety, belonging, and what educators can learn from moments when inclusion actually works in everyday spaces.

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I think some nonprofits feel like they can’t talk about the current political climate, be specific, or attempt to hold the Trump administration accountable for their actions. And I think there’s a way to do it without devolving into name-calling or that type of thing, but to be very specific about what is happening and how it’s impacting people.

What I’m saying is, I hear what you’re saying about the lack of organization and movement building, and I see that New Disabled South is doing that. I feel like that is so needed in this space. As a nonprofit leader for the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education, I would love to see more movement building in our space, particularly around education and policy.

Our nonprofit partners with school districts. That’s our main thing. So I’m always asking the question, how can we bring more people into this community? Because we all want the same thing. Am I quoting you when I say, if everyone isn’t free, then we aren’t free? Or something like that. Isn’t that you or somebody?

Dom Kelly
I didn’t make it up, but I’ve said it before, yes.

Tim Villegas
There you go.

Dom Kelly
Someone way harder than me made it up.

Tim Villegas
Yes, but that’s the idea. So let’s talk about schools. I’d love to know how you’re thinking about disability justice in schools and what you think school leaders miss when it comes to including disabled students.

Dom Kelly
Yeah, I think when we’re talking about disability justice, I’m not thinking about Section 504 or IDEA. All of that is critical infrastructure that we need for our disabled students.

When I think about disability justice, I’m thinking about policing in schools, how the data shows that that disproportionately harms disabled students, and not just disabled students, but Black disabled students and brown disabled students. That is an intersection that is most often harmed by oppressive systems.

That begs the question of how we keep students safe. There’s no data that shows that having armed police in schools keeps students safe. I think about ICE going into schools and terrorizing students and their families and how that impacts disabled kids.

I think about Disabled Disruptors. They’re a group of teens and early twenties, high school and college kids, who are organizing on their own. They said, “Our schools don’t have plans in place for emergencies or active shooter situations. There’s no plan for us. How do we evacuate?”

They were able to write and pass a bill in the state of Virginia that mandates schools have a plan in place for their disabled students. Those are the things I think are missed, because society assumes we have the ADA, so disabled folks have what they need. But the ADA doesn’t stop police brutality, pull disabled people out of poverty, or give access to transportation or food.

It’s the same with schools. We have 504 plans and IEPs, and that’s fantastic. But what about disabled students who can’t afford a meal? Are their meals paid for? Can they evacuate if they need to? Those are the things I think are missed when we talk about disability inclusion in schools.

Tim Villegas
Yeah. And to your point, we have IDEA and 504, but we’re recording this in October of 2025. There’s a government shutdown, and there are plans that by the beginning of December there won’t be anyone left in the Office of Special Education in the Department of Ed. So who’s going to enforce it? Although, to be fair, there was little enforcement to begin with. The infrastructure is being dismantled.

Dom Kelly
And it’s intentional. Absolutely. There’s a reason why they’ve been pushing for private school vouchers, more money for vouchers, and defunding public schools for years. It’s all connected. Private schools can legally discriminate against disabled kids. This has been a long game for people who don’t want all students educated in the same way.

Tim Villegas
Right. I mean, gosh, do I bring this up? Sure, we’re going to bring it up. I’m just listening to people who call themselves conservatives, who have those labels of conservatives and Republicans on national talk shows, talking about how they don’t want disabled kids to be educated with other kids, with neurotypical peers. They’re actually saying it out loud. It’s not like they’re just talking in their houses or with friends or family or in text chats. They’re saying it out loud that they do not want this to happen.

So to your point, I think we’re going to see, if it keeps going the way it’s going, a lot more special schools, a lot more special places, and it’s going to become even more segregated than it is now. So we’ve got to keep our eyes wide open.

Dom Kelly
Mm-hmm. Yep. And keep educating people, because I do think we can get people to really see reality. But they’re not going to see it on their own if they’re getting fed information from one source. So I think it is contingent upon us to keep saying the truth, telling the truth.

Tim Villegas
Yeah. Is inclusion—when I talk about inclusion, I’m not just talking about inclusive placement. I think that gets lost in translation sometimes when we’re advocating, when we’re talking to educators who haven’t seen authentic inclusive practices.

What I mean is learners with and without disabilities in general education, not only classrooms, but spaces and schools and communities, and they’re being supported. That’s the baseline, the default. If people are just together with no support, that’s not inclusion.

So I’m wondering if you have experienced or seen that happen with someone you know or someone you’re close to, and how that might impact a student.

Dom Kelly
Yeah, I mean, I could tell my own story. This is both in school and in an extracurricular activity. I had a lot of support growing up. I had a mother who would kill for her kids, and not many kids have that in a parent. I felt very lucky to have that.

But it took a lot of work to educate teachers and other adults in my life and at school. I remember a number of teachers who made it easy for me to just be a part of school, even though I had physical needs that needed to be met.

The big memory that sticks out for me is that I started dancing when I was five, and I danced until I was 17. My mom’s a professional dancer, and her dad was, so someone was going to dance, and it was me.

I would go to dance class after school, and I remember a lot of times having to fight in school to get substitute teachers to believe me that I needed to leave class early or whatever it was. There was always sort of a fight.

Then I’d go to dance class, and I never had to fight there, ever. I wasn’t in a class of disabled kids. I was just in dance class with my peers. I would take the braces off my legs. I would point my toes. I couldn’t turn my feet out. I couldn’t really go up on relevé. I did ballet for like six months, but I wasn’t really doing ballet.

My technique wasn’t the same as others. I was good at turning and spotting, but there were limits.

I had one teacher in particular. I did hip hop the longest out of any type of dance. My hip hop teacher was a prime example of a great teacher who knew and understood my limitations. There were things like floor work that I couldn’t do physically.

She choreographed in a way where it wasn’t just Dom standing while everyone else was on the floor. It was like these four people are standing, and we’re spaced in a way where it just looks normal. She wasn’t doing that because she felt bad for me. It was just, we need to accommodate Dom in real time.

It wasn’t explicitly said. It was just an understanding. She eventually gave me the opportunity to teach hip hop to young kids. I taught hip hop for three or four years when I was a teenager.

I share that because that was an experience I longed to have in school, in my classes. I got that outside of school, and it was incredible.

Over time, there were teachers from my school who had kids at the dance school or taught there, and it did have an impact on them and the environment in school. People understood my disability. They understood the way that teacher approached it, and that did have an impact. It permeated into school, and I had more and more support as I got older.

That’s an example of inclusion really in action.

Tim Villegas
Oh yeah. Great example. Wow. I know our audience will—yeah, some light bulbs are definitely going off. Especially with what you said about that experience and the educators seeing that and then that making an impact. So I really appreciate that.

So disability justice, right? There are a lot of phrases that get thrown around—disability rights, disability justice, disability advocacy. Can you differentiate that term for us, the justice part?

Dom Kelly
Yeah, for sure. Disability rights is a political movement. It is more geared toward legislative, legal wins within established systems, and largely, historically, has been white-led, most visibly led by physically disabled white folks. It has really focused on wins within systems.

Disability justice, as a framework and a set of principles, was developed in the mid-2000s, around 2005 or so, by BIPOC, queer, multiply marginalized disabled folks in the Bay Area of California.

That framework is intersectional, anti-capitalist, and political—not political in the way disability rights is, but political in the sense that disabled people are, by nature, political because our bodies and minds don’t conform to what society says is right or should be.

Disability justice can be applied as a framework to many things. The principles can be applied broadly. You can use that lens when talking about legislation or inclusion. Fundamentally, they are different things.

A friend says disability rights values a non-disabled audience, and disability justice is by disabled people for disabled people. I really appreciate that framing because it makes it clear that disability rights says, we want you to include us in your non-disabled systems, while disability justice says, yes, and also we are building our own world—one that’s accessible for everybody, considers intersections of lived experience, centers the most marginalized voices, and doesn’t link our value to productivity.

For an organization like ours, we do both. We do the policy and legislative work, but we’re a disability justice organization in as many ways as possible while still operating within the nonprofit industrial complex.

Tim Villegas
That is such a real statement. So let me see if I can connect the dots for people listening. How can we—especially nonprofits, principals, district leaders—bring this disability justice lens to our work to better support and include disabled students? How do we connect what we’re already doing to the disability justice movement?

Dom Kelly
I think it starts with recognizing that disability is not a monolith. No two disabled people have the same experience. That’s especially true when comparing a white disabled person and a disabled person of color. Those intersecting identities directly impact people’s lives and will show up in school, in the accommodations they need, and in how they learn.

Then it’s about creating a learning environment that supports all students and disabled educators, making sure needs are actually met. It’s not just about extra time on tests. It’s about the reality that students bring their whole selves.

A student might need extra time on tests, but they might also live in a part of town without public transportation. Their parent might work two jobs. They might be on a waiver to get care needs met at home. So how do we make sure they have everything they need to succeed, in school and outside of school?

That responsibility often isn’t on educators alone; it’s on elected officials. But taking that lens helps us see that it’s more than paperwork. Then we can be creative about how we help students succeed.

And the last thing I’ll say is this: have the disabled person at the table. When you’re working on IEPs, 504 meetings, or just checking in, ask students what they need and whether their needs are being met. Bring the people who are impacted into the decision-making process. That alone is a powerful first step.

Tim Villegas
Dom, we’re in a really interesting moment in history. Why is this moment important for disability justice, especially here in the South?

Dom Kelly
It pains me to say this, but in many ways, we’re going backwards. The Supreme Court is likely going to gut the Voting Rights Act, which will disproportionately impact people of color and disabled people. Disabled people are also people of color, so these issues overlap.

We’re seeing rollbacks of rights marginalized communities have gained. As someone who lives in the South and loves it, many of the rights we have now exist because the South did terrible things for a long time, and people fought back.

People say, as the South goes, so goes the country. The South has been at the forefront of stopping progress, but also of organizing. Any advances we’ve made have come from organizers in the South.

That gives me hope. I’m seeing other movements think about disability justice and include disabled people more. Movements are becoming more interdependent, working in solidarity. We’re trying to bring that to the forefront here in the South, and hopefully it spreads elsewhere.

We are backsliding, but the pendulum will swing. If we keep building momentum, we can bring it somewhere we can’t even imagine right now.

Tim Villegas
If you could ask every school leader to do one thing differently tomorrow, what would it be?

Dom Kelly
I would ask every school leader to listen to their disabled students, believe them when they tell you what they need. Believe them if they tell you someone else didn’t believe them. Make sure they’re at the table. Make sure their voices are centered in decisions about their lives and education.

Even well-intentioned adults can believe they need to be the voice for disabled students, but disabled students have the right and deserve to be part of decisions that impact them. Listen to them and include them.

Tim Villegas
Where can people find out more about New Disabled South?

Dom Kelly
They can go to newdisabledsouth.org. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, all the social media. Do a little Google search and we’ll be there.

Tim Villegas
Dom, this has been fantastic. Can you stick around for a mystery question?

Dom Kelly
Yeah, of course.

Tim Villegas
Before we wrap up, it’s time for our mystery question. What nearly always makes you smile?

Dom Kelly
My daughter. My two-and-a-half-year-old daughter. Even when she’s having a tantrum because she wants to wear a dress that’s been in the dirty clothes hamper for three days and smells. I always smile. It’s my kid.

Tim Villegas
Yeah, I hear that. We have three. I’ll go a different way. I love the fall. It’s my favorite time of year. Every year our neighborhood has a Halloween block party. Seeing the kids grow up, knowing our neighbors, finding belonging in a community—that always makes me smile.

Thanks for playing along, Dom. This has been such a pleasure.

Dom Kelly
Wow. This was awesome. A great end to my week.

Tim Villegas
That was Dom Kelly. One thing I’m taking away from this conversation is how easy it is for systems to confuse compliance with care. Inclusion isn’t just placement or paperwork. It’s whether students feel seen, believed, and supported every day.

At MCIE, we talk a lot about breaking down silos and designing schools around the students they have. This conversation reinforced that for me.

One practical step for educators: ask a student what’s getting in their way, then listen without defending the system.

Share this episode with a colleague building inclusive schools. Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Shout out to the special education administrators I spent time with in St. George, Utah, last week. I was invited to give a keynote about educator burnout and how the system can feel too heavy—even for Superman. The antidote to too heavy is community.

If you’re interested in having me or MCIE give a keynote, email me at tvillegas@mcie.org. Now let’s roll the credits.

Think Inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. I write, edit, mix, and master. This show is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Scheduling and extra production help from Jill Wagoner. Original music by Miles Kredich with extra vibes from Melod.ie.

Big thanks to our sponsors, IXL and Adaptiverse. Visit ixl.com/inclusive and adaptiverseapp.com.

Fun fact: April comes from the Latin “aperire,” meaning to open. It’s also Autism Acceptance Month. If we’re serious about understanding autism, the best place to start is simple: listen to autistic people themselves.

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Find us on the socials almost everywhere at Think Inclusive. Thanks for hanging out, and remember, inclusion always works.