Reimagining Special Education: Jenna Rufo on How Inclusion Builds Equity for All Students ~ 906

Tim Villegas:
Honestly, it’s embarrassing how many times I thought about giving up. In the next few months, Think Inclusive will turn 10 years old. When I first started, I had the faint hope that it would turn into something I could do every day, but never considered it a true possibility. A few years ago, I was at Georgia State University for the screening of Dan Habib’s film, Intelligent Lives. There was a meet and greet with Dan after the film. Dan had been on the podcast a couple of times to talk about his films, but we had never met in person. We had a chance to talk and I remember him asking me, “So how is Think Inclusive going, are you doing this full time?” And I said, “Hah! I wish. For now, I’m just doing this on my free time, nights, weekends, and holiday breaks.”

And I don’t think Dan knows what that comment meant to me. He thought that what I was doing was good enough for it to be my full-time job. And you know what, there are countless others that have given me encouragement along the way—people who reply to the Weeklyish, those who give reviews on Apple Podcasts, and the personal emails I get thanking me for what I do. I appreciate all of you so much. It’s sometimes hard to know the impact you’re having when you’re a communicator. There are numbers of downloads and email open rates and social media engagement. But my favorite kind of data is getting a message from one of you that Think Inclusive has helped you become a better advocate, educator, or human being. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. From the bottom of my heart. I didn’t want another episode to go by without telling you that.

My name is Tim Villegas, and you are listening to the Think Inclusive Podcast presented by MCIE.

This podcast exists to build bridges between families, educators, and disability rights advocates to create a shared understanding of inclusive education and what inclusion looks like in the real world. To find out more about who we are and what we do, check us out at thinkinclusive.us, or on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. Also, take our podcast listener survey. Your responses will help us deliver and develop a better podcast experience. Go to bit.ly/TIPodcastSurvey to submit your responses. We appreciate it.

Today on the podcast, we interview author, educator, and consultant Jenna Rufo about her book, Reimagining Special Education, and how we can use inclusion as a framework to build equity and support all students. We also discuss what it looks like for students who are not included 80% or more of their day in general education, and if there’s a bare minimum to what we call inclusive education. We are so glad you’re listening. And now, our interview with Jenna Rufo.

Tim Villegas:
So today on the podcast, we have Dr. Jenna Rufo, who is an experienced public school leader turned inclusive education consultant. Jenna founded empowerED School Solutions to support school districts with implementing inclusive education. Jenna was inspired to enter the field of education by her sister, Nina, who has multiple disabilities. She views education as her calling and is passionate about providing quality programs for all students. Welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast, Jenna.

Jenna Rufo:
Thank you for having me, Tim.

Tim Villegas:
We’re really excited about you being here. I would love it if you could tell us a little bit about yourself and how you would describe your role over the last few years in implementing inclusive education.

Jenna Rufo:
Sure. As you said, my sister Nina inspired me to enter special education. Nina has significant disabilities and growing up, she had a big impact on me. At that time, the laws we have today weren’t necessarily in place or enforced the way they are now. I saw a lot of injustices that Nina experienced. So I went into special education and elementary education. My first teaching job was in Massachusetts as an inclusion facilitator—this was 20 years ago. I point that out because the district I was in had been doing inclusion for a long time. There are parts of the country where this is nothing new.

I started my career managing services for students with significant disabilities at a public middle school so they could be included in general ed. When I moved back to Pennsylvania, I felt like I had stepped back in time. I was surprised that practices were still segregating students. I pursued my administrative certification, became a special education administrator, and then a director. In that role for a large school district, I led the transition from mostly self-contained classes to a much more inclusive system. Before becoming a consultant, I was assistant superintendent. So I’ve seen change through different levels—as a teacher and as a leader. Now, through empowerED, I support school districts across the country in creating more inclusive schools.

Tim Villegas:
I also didn’t put this in your bio, but you wrote a book.

Jenna Rufo:
I did, yes.

Tim Villegas:
And we’re going to talk about it. I’m not sure if I’m going to edit that or not, but we definitely want to make sure you get a chance to talk about Reimagining Special Education, the book you wrote with Julie Causton. So let’s talk a little bit about why you felt the need to write Reimagining Special Education. When COVID hit, educators knew something needed to be done to support students with disabilities. Was this the reason why you wrote it, or was this something you had already been working on?

Jenna Rufo:
I think it was partially the reason. The reality is that it’s something I’ve been thinking about for a very long time. It’s very clear to me that special education has needed to change for a long time. Despite decades of laws saying students need to be included, and a plethora of research indicating that students with disabilities are best served in general education, separate programming persists. While things have needed to change for quite some time, the need is even more urgent now. We have students returning to us who may not have had their basic needs met, limited parental support at home for virtual learning, or school anxiety that’s been reinforced. Students with disabilities and limited English proficiency didn’t have access to rich experiences. On the other hand, some students worked ahead or preferred online learning. Now we have a wide range of skills, social-emotional needs, and trauma in classrooms. If special education is the only prescription for support, that system will become overwhelmed.

Jenna Rufo:
We’re seeing more behavioral concerns and mental health challenges. But this isn’t new. We’ve always had a wide range in our classrooms, always had social-emotional and behavioral needs, and kids on the margins of what we consider “average.” This is a systemic issue. COVID could be an impetus for positive change, but it’s not the cause. Nor is it the fault of school boards, teachers, administrators, government, economy, or students. It’s the system we’ve been in for a long time. We have a unique opportunity to press pause, reset, and think about what has always worked in schools and what hasn’t—and what we need to do to make it better for everybody.

Tim Villegas:
So, Jenna, what does it mean to reimagine special education?

Jenna Rufo:
I like using the “re” prefix—reimagine, restore. In our book, Reimagining Special Education, we talk about seeing students’ gifts rather than deficits, designing experiences that recognize their potential, and building on their strengths. It’s about redesigning instruction with meaningful, differentiated tasks and multiple ways to demonstrate knowledge. It also means restructuring intervention and enrichment. Right now, services are assigned based on artificial labels—special ed, ESL, gifted. We need to break down those walls and figure out how to maximize staff talents so all students can receive support when they need it. Everyone needs help or extension at some point. It’s also about reconceptualizing equity—seeing disability as another form of diversity, a natural part of the human condition, not something to be fixed.

Tim Villegas:
I love how you include equity in the conversation. Has it been your experience that equity has always been part of inclusive education, and now we’re just paying attention to it? How has that connection evolved?

Jenna Rufo:
Unfortunately, disability is often excluded from equity conversations. I heard of a superintendent who said he didn’t want to use the term “inclusion” because it implies special education. I was flabbergasted. Of course it implies special education. When thinking about disability in the context of equity, we should see it as just another form of difference and diversity. We wouldn’t segregate students based on race or gender, so we shouldn’t do it for disability either.

Tim Villegas:
When you wrote the book and explained this reimagining, what do you feel was the most glaring aspect of education that needed to be reimagined?

Jenna Rufo:
Placement practices in special education. The default should be general education, not a separate place. The law prefers general education for good reason—research supports it as the most effective setting. Reimagining means shifting our belief system from “students need to leave to learn” to “we can provide what they need within general education.” That’s hard to conceptualize because it requires change—interactive teaching, stations, differentiated instruction, modified materials. Traditional stand-and-deliver or call-and-response models don’t work for many students, especially those with disabilities. Even if students aren’t misbehaving, they may not be engaged. We need classrooms that are more engaging and inclusive so students can learn to their highest potential alongside their peers.

Tim Villegas:
Do you think that’s why it’s been so hard for systems to change—because it actually requires them to do some work?

Jenna Rufo:
I think that’s part of it. Most teachers want to do well by students. Nobody goes into this thinking, “I’m just going to phone it in.” I went into education because I like kids, I care about them, and I want to help them. Where I see it breaking down the most is the belief system piece. Despite all the laws and research, we still have separate programs. Belief systems are less malleable. What I would say to someone who’s unsure is to go into it with an open mind and an open heart. I can teach anyone a skill—co-teaching, differentiated instruction, universal design for learning. We can provide time to collaborate with colleagues. But belief systems are harder to reach. So suspend your judgment and give it a try. Not a half-hearted attempt, but really go into it thinking, “I want to make this work.” Beliefs are the biggest barriers to effective implementation.

Tim Villegas:
How did you handle that when you were a district leader? How did you navigate that? I’m sure that’s something you came across.

Jenna Rufo:
Absolutely. From a district standpoint, one of the most important places to start is with your district administrative team. The vision comes from the top, and you need your team on the same page. I was in a central office position, and it would be easy for me to say, “This is what we’re doing,” but the principals and other special education administrators have to carry that out. You need a solid foundation with your leadership team—they’re the ones who will get the questions initially. When interacting with teachers, it’s about challenging belief systems. We can provide training, supportive structures like collaborative planning time, and time to problem solve. But we also need to navigate challenging conversations. This type of change is foundation-shaking—it challenges what we think about students and where they are best educated. As leaders, we need to support, listen, and have conversations to bring staff along.

Jenna Rufo:
My goal was always to reach the tipping point. Not everyone will think this is a good idea, but I need enough people believing to start shifting the culture. Several years down the road, if staff still aren’t on board, that’s when you have to have hard conversations—“Is this the place for you?” That’s tough, but you can also hire compatible staff. As staff turns over, bring in people who believe in the vision. Of course you want commitment, but sometimes you’ll settle for compliance. If I’ve done everything for you for several years and you’re still not on board, but you’re willing to do what’s asked, then that’s okay. You’re not going to get everybody.

Tim Villegas:
I’m wondering if you could help our listeners visualize—even in an inclusive school district that’s doing their best to provide inclusive practices—what does it look like for the kids that aren’t in there 80% of the day? I know I didn’t prep you for this question, but I think it’s important for educators and parents who want to see inclusion move forward but can’t quite visualize it because they’re in a segregated system. Can you walk us through that?

Jenna Rufo:
Yeah. Two questions there. First, what does it look like for kids who aren’t included for most of their day? The federal indicator reports the percentage of kids with disabilities who spend 80% or more of their time in general education. The government wants to see how many are included for the majority of the day. In highly inclusive schools, students might not be at 100%, but they’re in what we call a Pennsylvania supplemental level—part-time in special ed, part-time in gen ed. For those students, the goal is always inclusion.

Jenna Rufo:
We’re seeing more students returning from mental health placements or residential settings for significant emotional needs. Sometimes they need a step-down before going back into a large public school. I’d rather see them in that transitional environment than put them back in immediately and have them out again a month later. For students not included 80% or more of the day, we need a transition plan to facilitate their return to general education.

Tim Villegas:
Yeah, I think that’s important for people to hear. I wanted to hear people address that. When I was a special education teacher working in a district that was at 60%, I couldn’t even imagine what 90% looked like.

Jenna Rufo:
Yeah. To that second question—what does it look like? That’s where it gets tricky. People can’t imagine how a student with Down syndrome could be included in general education. What about the specialized supports they need? The way I see it, instead of building special ed classrooms and fitting students into them, we should design the schedule and program around the student. Wrap services around the student. If a student needs 30 minutes of intensive reading intervention—of course we want them to learn to read—that intervention doesn’t need to come at the expense of inclusion.

Jenna Rufo:
How can we schedule that to maximize their time in general education? Is there a school-wide intervention and enrichment block where anyone can get support, and that student can receive it then? Also, what are the individualized goals for those students? Teachers often need reassurance and permission that students with significant disabilities aren’t expected to keep up with everyone else. We have targeted goals for that child, and we modify the material with support from the special education team or inclusion specialists so the student can be meaningfully included. Instead of fitting students into predesigned boxes, we wrap services around them so they can be in general ed.

Tim Villegas:
If you’re an educator or administrator listening to this conversation, I want to highlight what Jenna said about that specialized intervention block—because you’re probably already doing that. If you’re in a high school, you probably have an advisement block or some sort of intervention block. They’ve got all these cool names now for times of day when students get a little more. That’s when a student with an intellectual disability can get highly specialized intervention. It doesn’t have to mean being removed from a regular class or the life of the school community. So thank you for mentioning that, Jenna. I really appreciate it.

Tim Villegas:
Inclusive education is often misunderstood. A lot of times, we’re not even talking about the same thing. When I say inclusive ed, people think it means all kids in one classroom all the time, doing the same thing. But is there a bare minimum to inclusive education? If a school district is implementing inclusive education, is there a baseline we can point to and say, “Yes, that’s inclusive”?

Jenna Rufo:
I love that question. I want to answer it by sharing a story about an amazing behavior analyst I worked with. She was doing a training on inclusive behavioral supports and got a lot of questions like, “Why are all these kids with behaviors in my class?” or “Why are these kids who don’t speak English in my class?” or “Why are all these kids with autism in my class?” Her response was brilliant: “They’re in your class because they live here.”

Jenna Rufo:
The bare minimum to being included in a public school classroom is that you live in the district. It’s not up to the students to prove they can be meaningfully included. It’s up to us to figure out how to reach them. That doesn’t mean we don’t give teachers support or differentiated materials—we absolutely do. But we have to stop thinking this is a choice, or that we get to decide whether a student is worthy of being included. The default assumption is: they live here, they’re going to be in general education, and we’re going to do our best to support them and our teachers to make them successful.

Tim Villegas:
That’s great. “They live here.” We could go on about that. I want to get back to the law. Do you think the law needs to be changed? It’s been a while since Congress has even considered it. I’ve talked with a few people about the idea that the continuum of placements is a barrier. It’s in the law, but it gives everyone an excuse to say, “Well, they belong somewhere else.”

Jenna Rufo:
It absolutely does. What frustrates me is when I hear that we need a continuum of services or placements as justification for not moving forward with inclusion or why a student shouldn’t be in general education. It’s an excuse. The cornerstone of IDEA is the least restrictive environment, which is the general education classroom. But instead, we’ve latched onto the continuum of placements to justify current practices. The law definitely needs to be reexamined. The last reauthorization was in 2004. I don’t think the fundamental cornerstones need to change—they support inclusion—but the accountability and monitoring for LRE definitely need to change.

Jenna Rufo:
As a leader in an inclusive district, we had many families move to the district. We welcomed them, of course, but there’s a financial component. The districts they came from, which weren’t inclusive, continue being not inclusive. Meanwhile, inclusive districts get overwhelmed. Money talks. We fund schools through IDEA, so there should be accountability—if you’re not meeting LRE targets, you get less funding. I think we’d see a lot more changes if that were the case. Right now, you get a corrective action letter, a slap on the wrist, put together a plan, and maybe you meet the threshold, maybe you don’t. If you don’t, there’s no real consequence. We need to look at that more innovatively and creatively to support inclusive practices.

Tim Villegas:
I love that idea. I don’t know the number off the top of my head, but I’d say most states aren’t meeting their LRE targets—and they set the target.

Jenna Rufo:
Right. And even those that are, we need to disaggregate that data. What happens is you have certain levels—maybe middle or high school is more inclusive because they’re implementing co-teaching—so the average brings everyone up. But we need to look systemically across grade levels and disability categories. Where are students being included and where aren’t they? For students with intellectual disabilities, their inclusion rate is dismal. It’s in the teens in terms of the percentage of time they spend 80% or more in gen ed. We need to disaggregate that data to determine where we need to improve.

Tim Villegas:
Yeah. There’s a district here in Georgia with a very high LRE rate—like 90%. But when you dig down, students with autism and intellectual disabilities are continually being segregated into special education classrooms. It’s interesting that you can have such a high percentage and still be segregating students by disability.

Jenna Rufo:
Right. That goes back to the belief system. “They can’t do it,” or “They won’t get anything out of this.” Students with significant disabilities often have to prove they can benefit from general education, while no one else has to say, “I deserve to be in gen ed.” We make assumptions—“What could that student possibly get out of this?” or “What could they learn from studying FDR in history class?” Well, what does anybody learn from that? We’ve decided that this curriculum holds value. But schooling is more than acquiring information. It’s about being a member of a community, problem-solving, and developing critical thinking skills. You don’t get to do that when you’re pulled out.

Tim Villegas:
Do you have any thoughts about neighborhood schools or homeschools? A lot of districts cluster services, and I understand why—because of resources and things like that. But was that something you came across when you were at North Penn? How did you navigate that?

Jenna Rufo:
Absolutely. The preference should always be for students to attend their neighborhood school. That’s where their natural supports and community connections are. When I say natural supports, I mean existing resources—like friends on the same street. If I’m a first grader with significant disabilities, I need to go to school with the kids I see every day. As I grow up, those peers become my natural supports.

There tends to be a reliance on clustering when we have separate programs. If we continue to stratify students by disability category—autistic support here, multiple disabilities there, life skills in another building—then we justify moving students around. But when we break those categories down, there’s no reason to go to another building.

Jenna Rufo:
Structures need to be in place to make that effective. I mentioned earlier that my first position was as an inclusion facilitator, and I really believe in that model. You have someone in the building who supports students with significant needs and works behind the scenes—modifying curriculum, providing behavior support, and coaching teachers. That’s key to sustainability and keeping kids in their home schools. It’s unrealistic to expect a special ed teacher who’s co-teaching or in a resource room all day to also modify all the curriculum for a student with significant needs.

Tim Villegas:
I’m so glad you brought that up. If you’re an educator or administrator hearing Jenna talk about an inclusion facilitator—those district-level support people like behavior specialists or instructional support specialists—those folks can be inclusion facilitators. That’s essentially what you did, right? I mean, I guess I’m putting words in your mouth, but in that position, what did that look like? Were you supporting behavior, curriculum? Was it segmented, or did you have other positions that supported those things?

Jenna Rufo:
Right. In the book Julie and I wrote, we have a whole chapter on inclusion facilitation. We propose three different variations because it really depends on the students and the school.

The first variation is building-level. The facilitator has a caseload of students they keep an eye on and supports all the teams. This works well in schools that have already started inclusion and just need coaching. That facilitator might sit on the data team, leadership team, or MTSS team to look at pre-referrals and behavior challenges.

Jenna Rufo:
The second model is student-specific. This is helpful when you have a cluster of students with significant needs—like if you’re dissolving a life skills or multiple disabilities class. The facilitator is paired with a caseload of about seven or eight students and works closely on modifying curriculum and providing behind-the-scenes support.

The third model is content-specific, which works better at the middle and high school levels. You pair a facilitator with a department—like science. That person becomes a content expert and supports modifications within that subject. This wouldn’t work well in elementary or small schools because you wouldn’t have enough staff.

Jenna Rufo:
We include guidance in the book on when to use each model. One thing I want to make clear: this doesn’t mean you need to hire a ton of new staff. When you start dissolving separate programs and collapsing classes, you free up teachers. Instead of instructing in a separate setting, they can provide consultative, behind-the-scenes support.

Tim Villegas:
I’m so glad you brought that up. Again, if you’re an educator or administrator and you’re hearing Jenna talk about an inclusion facilitator—those district-level support people like behavior specialists or instructional support specialists—all of those people can be inclusion facilitators. That’s essentially what you did, right? I mean, I guess I’m putting words into your mouth, but in that position, what did that look like? Were you supporting behavior as well? Curriculum? Was it segmented, or did you have other positions that supported those things?

Jenna Rufo:
Right. In the book that Julie and I wrote, we have a whole chapter on inclusion facilitation, and we propose three different variations. The reason we propose different models is because it really depends on the students and the school.

The first variation is building-level. The facilitator has a caseload of students they monitor and supports all the teams. This works well in schools that have already begun inclusion and just need coaching. That facilitator might sit on the data team, leadership team, or MTSS team to look at pre-referrals and behavior challenges.

The second model is student-specific. This is helpful when you have a cluster of students with significant needs—like if you’re dissolving a life skills or multiple disabilities class. The facilitator is paired with a caseload of about seven or eight students and works closely on modifying curriculum and providing behind-the-scenes support.

The third model is content-specific, which works better at the middle and high school levels. You pair a facilitator with a department—like science. That person becomes a content expert and supports modifications within that subject. This wouldn’t work well in elementary or small schools because you wouldn’t have enough staff.

Jenna Rufo:
We include guidance in the book on when to use each model. One thing I want to make clear: this doesn’t mean you need to hire a ton of new staff. When you start dissolving separate programs and collapsing classes, you free up teachers. Instead of instructing in a separate setting, they can provide consultative, behind-the-scenes support.

Tim Villegas:
If I were an educator who wanted to see this change in my school but didn’t know where to start, what kind of advice would you give?

Jenna Rufo:
First, speak up. Get the courage to say what you believe in and stand behind it—because the colleagues who don’t want to do this will speak up. Even if your system isn’t there yet, you can still make an impact. Start with one. Look at who in your class is leaving you. If you’re a general education teacher, who’s leaving that you think could stay? Talk to their teacher, talk to their team, and think about what you can control.

In my work with Julie Causton, she’s talked about the starfish story. There’s an old man walking along the beach who sees a young boy throwing starfish into the ocean. He asks, “What are you doing?” The boy says, “I’m throwing the starfish back because the tide is up. If I don’t, they’ll die.” The old man says, “You’ll never make a difference for all those starfish.” The boy replies, “I made a difference for that one,” and throws another. “And that one.” So we have all these starfish—we’ve got to start throwing them back in. Start with one, and progress will come.

Tim Villegas:
Why don’t we do this—because I know you have empowerED, and I know you have your book—can you spend a few minutes talking about where people can find you and your resources?

Jenna Rufo:
If you’re interested in learning more about my services or my book, you can find my website at https://www.jennarufo.com/. You can also go to https://bit.ly/ReimaginedBook for information on purchasing the book. Follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/JennaMRufo. That’s where you can find me.

Tim Villegas:
Dr. Jenna Rufo, thank you so much for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast. We appreciate your time.

Jenna Rufo:
Thank you so much. I enjoyed it. Thank you for having me.

Tim Villegas:
That will do it for this episode of the Think Inclusive Podcast. Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, the Anchor app, Spotify, or wherever you listen. What do you think about our new podcast logo design? Email us at podcast@thinkinclusive.us—we love knowing you’re listening.

Thank you to patrons Veronica E, Sonya A, Pamela P, Mark C, Kathy B, and Kathleen T for their continued support. When you become a patron, your contribution helps with audio production, transcription, and promotion. You could even get a shout-out like the fine people we just mentioned. Go to https://www.patreon.com/thinkinclusivepodcast to become a patron and get access to all our unedited interviews, including this one with Jenna Rufo.

This podcast is a production of MCIE, where we envision a society where neighborhood schools welcome all learners and create the foundation for inclusive communities. Learn more at https://www.mcie.org/.

We’ll be back in a couple of weeks with a special episode about the Self-Determined Learning Model of Instruction, or SDLMI. Thank you for your time and attention. Until next time—remember, inclusion always works.