Unveiling the Heart of Inclusion: How DEI Transforms Education Forever

Tim Villegas: From MCIE. The connection between inclusive schools and diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives. My name is Tim Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education, and you are listening to Think Inclusive, a show where with every conversation we try to build bridges between families, educators, and disability rights advocates to create a shared understanding of inclusion, inclusive education, and what inclusion looks like in the real world.

Tim Villegas: You can learn more about who we are and what we do at mcie.org. On this episode of Think Inclusive, I speak with Simone Morris and Julie Kratz, the hosts of the Inclusion School podcast. Simone and Julie connected over social media in 2015 and decided to collaborate on a podcast to talk about the connection between inclusive schools and the DEI space. Here’s what I cover with Simone and Julie in this episode.

Tim Villegas: Why diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives are important in schools. Some ways to show up and be allies with people who have been historically marginalized. And why it is important to talk about issues of racism, sexism, homophobia, and ableism with children. Before we get into today’s interview, I want to tell you about our sponsor, Together Letters. Are you losing touch with people in your life but don’t want to be on social media all the time?

Tim Villegas: Together Letters is a tool that can help. It’s a group email newsletter that asks its members for updates and then combines them into a single newsletter for everyone. All you need is email. We are using Together Letters so Think Inclusive patrons can keep in touch with each other. Groups of 10 or less are free, and you can sign up today at togetherletters.com. Thank you so much for listening. And now, my interview with Simone and Julie.

Tim Villegas: Welcome to the podcast.

Simone Morris: Thank you, Tim. Thanks for having me.

Julie Kratz: Yeah, same. Excited to be here.

Tim Villegas: I had the privilege of being on the Inclusion School podcast, and we had a fantastic discussion about inclusion, schools, and diversity. We wanted to have Simone and Julie on to talk about the connection between inclusive schools and the DEI space. So to get us started, will you—whoever wants to go first, Simone or Julie—please introduce yourself to our audience of inclusionists?

Simone Morris: Sure. Happy to kick the ball off. My name is Simone E. Morris, and first and foremost, I’m a mom of a seven-year-old daughter. I’m a DEI—diversity, equity, and inclusion—practitioner. I’ve been doing this work since about 2009 in the corporate space and then on my own since 2015. So happy to be here, happy to engage in this rich conversation.

Julie Kratz: That’s so funny. I didn’t know. It’s so funny how much we talk and how much I learn, because we started our businesses the same year, 2015. And I have an eight-year-old, and we’ve traded notes a lot about the adventures of Jane and Millie.

Simone Morris: That’s why—it’s Dylan. Oh, yeah.

Julie Kratz: I can’t forget about my almost one-year-old who’s such a joy and a challenge. But yeah, we both did this work for corporate for a long time. When we connected through social media and saw that we were doing similar but different things, we thought, hey, we need to have this conversation earlier. We need to talk to our kids about it. But both of us were struggling, and we thought, if we’re DEI people struggling with this conversation, there’s probably a lot more people struggling with it. So we’re 60 episodes in and counting, and so excited that Tim and others have shared their expertise with us.

Tim Villegas: So you connected over social media and then decided, hey, let’s do a podcast?

Julie Kratz: Yeah, that’s kind of how the story goes, Simone.

Simone Morris: Right. Well, first of all, we liked each other a lot—and we still do. So that happened first. And then we thought, we’ve got to work together. What are we going to do? So a podcast and a book later—and I’m sure there’ll be more to come. We just liked each other a lot.

Julie Kratz: Yeah, we had multiple conversations. I think it was that first conversation where some weird stuff happened in both of our kiddos’ schools, and we were like, hmm, this is a thing. This is still a thing. I think both of us kind of thought, oh, these kids have it figured out. We’re focused on people in the corporate space that really don’t have it figured out. And so I think both of us were surprised, uneducated ourselves.

Julie Kratz: I remember when Simone and I first talked—this was 2019, before the summer of 2020, the infamous summer where everyone really tried, I think, to get involved. But even then, there just weren’t a lot of tools. We found these amazing people in just pockets all over. We’ve interviewed people from all over the world, and I’ve been astonished to see there’s an amazing amount of children’s book authors that talk about diversity, but they’re not mainstream. It’s not something that’s always at the bookstore or in your Amazon cart. People that study this work and go into schools and have these conversations—educators are coming up with their DEI plans. So it’s been super cool to be surprised, scared, and affirmed that there are good people out there doing this work. We need more of them, though.

Tim Villegas: Would you mind—could you share with us, like you said, things happened at your schools with your children. Are those top of mind? Could you tell our listeners about that?

Julie Kratz: Yeah, I think for me, it was when Jane was entering elementary school. They had a DEI council or committee—this was 2019—and I joined. I looked around and saw it was all women, mostly women of color, and me and one other white woman. I thought, this seems to be a problem with representation. The representation of the school was quite the opposite—not a lot of kids of color, very white-dominated community.

Julie Kratz: It was really hard that year to figure out where my place was. I didn’t want to show up and be the DEI police, because there were ideas being thrown around that weren’t the most inclusive. Simone and I compared notes on the absence of conversation at my school. Simone took charge at her school, but at mine, even Black History Month and Women’s History Month passed with no conversation. Once COVID happened, we got completely distracted as a committee. I think we could have done a better job staying intact, but there was just a lot going on. For me, it was about wrestling with how to show up intentionally—not as a savior, but as someone who wanted to help in a place that didn’t have a lot of diversity but could at least work on inclusion and signal that we wanted more diversity.

Simone Morris: And I think for me, Tim, I was commiserating with Julie. My daughter was about to turn four and was in preschool. We had a playground incident where a little kid told her she didn’t belong. I was gutted. I knew I had to have a conversation, but it felt too early, and I wasn’t ready. Talking to Julie about that experience, I realized I wanted to move her to a school with more diversity—it was a predominantly white preschool.

Simone Morris: I had conversations with the directors and teachers, but I didn’t want her to be the only one in class. It’s a big burden to be the only one, especially at three years old. So I ended up moving her to a different school. Julie and I have had many conversations—about things not being done for Black History Month, or how to show up. Over time, we’ve learned and grown through the podcast. We’re always having conversations with our guests, and we learn something new every time. You can never stop learning in this space.

Tim Villegas: Do you think, because of the attention DEI has gotten over the last couple of years—I hear on social media sometimes people saying there’s too much attention on inclusion, too many DEI meetings, conferences, and workshops—do you really feel like there’s been an influx of content for people in your space?

Tim Villegas: And second, will we ever get to a point where we won’t need as much?

Simone Morris: I’ll take the first question. That’s the ultimate goal, right? Where it’s seamlessly integrated and not such a big deal. But the reason it’s a big deal is because we still don’t all get it. There’s so much to learn. It’s a big boulder uphill, and just when you think you get it, you fumble. I put my foot in my mouth or miss something.

Simone Morris: A lot of people are overwhelmed by what it takes to be truly inclusive. The world is changing, so we have to change as parents, caregivers, educators, and in the workplace—as human beings. We don’t all have it figured out. Just look around the world at what’s still happening.

Julie Kratz: And I think for people newer to the conversation, they thought, “Oh, we’ll tackle this this summer, this year.”

Tim Villegas: We’ll wrap this up.

Julie Kratz: Centuries of inequality won’t be solved in the short term. It won’t be solved in our lifetimes. But Simone and I have talked about how it makes us feel obligated to help create a next generation of allies. We need these kids to get it earlier. I was raised colorblind—that was super unhelpful. We all see color. Talking about incidents of sexism, racism, homophobia, ableism—whatever isms are at play—is an opportunity to help our kids grow and be better. We’re doing them a disservice by keeping this information from them.

Julie Kratz: They’re growing up in a global world, and it’s going to be even more global for them. Multiculturalism is one of the fastest-growing demographics, especially for our kids. They’re going to experience this sooner and more often.

Julie Kratz: As parents, caregivers, and educators, there’s a real fear of that bumble and stumble Simone mentioned. We want to protect our kids and be the experts, but this isn’t something we know a lot about. We call it “the dance”—the dance of ideas.

Julie Kratz: One of my favorite tips is to meet kids where they’re at. You don’t have to have all the answers. You can say, “I wonder,” “I noticed,” or “Did you notice?” Those types of questions are helpful for navigating the conversation. If we were just having more of those conversations, things would move more quickly. But Tim, the forecasts are pretty grim for racial diversity and gender equality—we’re still at least 100 years away. COVID set some of that progress back. Contrary to what people think, just talking about it hasn’t solved the systemic issues.

Tim Villegas: In your roles in DEI, how often does disability come up in the conversation?

Julie Kratz: It’s interesting. Simone, I’m curious about your perspective. I think most people go to race and gender first. We encourage people to broaden it. We’ve had guests talk about physical disabilities and cognitive disabilities like neurodiversity. But that’s an area where we’re a little weaker on our podcast, to be honest. We’ve had several guests, and it’s something we’re actively working on.

Julie Kratz: Especially when we’re talking through the lens of kids—there aren’t a lot of great books that talk openly about abilities and disabilities. I just read one over the weekend about disability awareness. So much of it is about the do’s and don’ts—the words to say and not say. Unfortunately, I’ve already heard some of those words come out of my daughter’s mouth at age eight. The stigma is real.

Julie Kratz: One of my favorite guests, Deb Daggett—Simone, you knew her—she said something I loved. Developmentally, meet kids where they’re at. One of the most common situations is when kids notice and point at someone in a wheelchair. Jane was shocked that a kid could be in a wheelchair—she didn’t know that was possible because she’d never seen it before. So having that conversation, not shushing them—yes, pointing isn’t ideal, but talk about it. Say, “I noticed that too.” It’s okay to talk to that person and greet them like anyone else. Usually, we avert our eyes. We’re afraid to say or do something wrong. But if kids are curious, it’s okay for them to ask questions in a thoughtful, respectful way. Don’t shy away from it. Don’t shut your kids down. That teaches them not to talk about it, and that continues later in life.

Simone Morris: That’s a great point, Julie. Just because we’re uncomfortable or think we’re doing the right thing by saying “shh,” it’s not necessarily the right thing. Again, it’s about dancing with discomfort—being uncomfortable, having the conversation, and admitting you don’t know. I don’t know. We’ve had guests with different abilities on the Inclusion School podcast. I remember we had a little girl and her mother—we talked to them, but I’m forgetting her name right now. Julie, do you remember her name?

Simone Morris: And she’s got a YouTube channel and all this content. It was very educational for us to have those conversations—even with parents—about their experiences and what prompted their activism. It was enlightening for us. So I think we’re starting to see more of that. I wouldn’t give us a D, Julie. I might give us a C on the Inclusion School podcast, because we’ve had different slices of abilities represented. We’ve had expert-level guests, children, parents, and even educators chime in about inclusion in the classroom.

Simone Morris: So we’ve got some resources. And in my day job, it comes up. It shows up in employee engagement surveys, where people are asking for a broader focus beyond race and gender. I think we’ll see a lot more attention on abilities and making space for them in the workplace.

Julie Kratz: Yeah. One of my favorite podcast episodes—though not the one you were thinking of, Simone, I know that was season one or two—was with Mike Hess. Remember?

Simone Morris: Yes! I loved that one.

Julie Kratz: He goes into schools and talks with kids about his blindness. He’s very open about it, so they’re not afraid when they see someone with a seeing-eye dog or someone who’s blind. I loved his stories because he made it fun. With disability, there’s a natural vulnerability that comes with it, and I think that scares us. Anyone could acquire a disability at any point in life. Unlike other dimensions of diversity—race, ethnicity, gender—disability can happen to anyone, anytime. That creates fear for parents. We don’t want to think about things that could cause us pain or challenge our sense of control.

Julie Kratz: So I think finding ways to reduce the stigma and open up the conversation is key. Disability is not something to be pitied. I’ve wrestled with that. I was conditioned to feel pity, to go into savior mode. That’s not helpful with any dimension of diversity, and it’s especially important to remember that with disability.

Tim Villegas: In our space of inclusive education, we’re constantly tackling misconceptions. I’d love to know—in your space—what’s a common misconception about inclusion?

Julie Kratz: I think people assume it’s going to be this really hard conversation. Like, “Oh no, we’re going to have to sit down for two hours, talk at length, and cry.” But I find, especially with my daughter Jane—she’s eight now, but we’ve been having these conversations since she was five or six—it’s more about noticing things together. It’s not always a big, heavy talk.

Julie Kratz: For example, we might go to a restaurant from a different culture and talk about how people around the world eat different foods. Or we’ll notice the diversity—or lack of it—in different places. One time, we went roller skating, and there was a lot of diversity. Then we went ice skating, and it was almost all white people. I asked Jane, “Did you notice that?” And she said, “Hmm, I don’t know why that is.” That opened up a conversation. I later learned from friends that roller skating is often tied to dance in the Black community, and ice skating is more tied to socioeconomics.

Julie Kratz: These conversations don’t last an hour. Jane can’t hold her attention that long. It’s usually five or ten minutes. But the next time she’s in a similar situation, she might notice it again. We don’t have to talk about it every time, but she starts to recognize where people feel a sense of belonging—and where they don’t. That’s how we can be more inclusive.

Julie Kratz: I think parents, caregivers, and educators worry that kids will say something inappropriate. But you actually learn a lot when you listen to them. I remember Jane once said, “Racism doesn’t make sense, Mom.” And I was trying to explain the history and how we got here, and she just said, “That sounds terrible. Those were some bad decisions.” I wish more adults could say that out loud.

Tim Villegas: Quite a long history—quite a long history of bad decisions.

Julie Kratz: And it’s not to oversimplify, but in a child’s mind, it’s okay to say, “Yeah, that was absolutely wrong.” Sometimes that’s enough for them.

Simone Morris: For me, it’s not always about outward inclusion. It can be inward, too. We’re teaching our children how to be inclusive, but there are times when they don’t feel included themselves. I don’t know if that’s more prominent for me or my daughter because we’re Black, but there are instances where your child might feel excluded—not because of overt racism or gender bias, but just because other kids don’t include them.

Simone Morris: Giving them the skills to navigate those moments is important. I work on that a lot with my daughter. Her experiences may happen more frequently, but any child can feel excluded. Julie, your story about ice skating reminded me—when we went ice skating, we were the only Black family there. I was hoping for more representation, but there wasn’t any. Our school had an ice skating activity, and we tend to embrace different experiences in our family—especially ones we didn’t have growing up. Millie’s had experiences in Australia and other places I never had. It feels like I’m experiencing them through her.

Simone Morris: But with that comes lessons. How do you deal with not being included? Sometimes you’re not expected to be in certain spaces. And as parents, we sometimes choose non-inclusive environments to give our kids access to certain experiences. I’ve done that with summer camps. I put Millie in a camp that wasn’t diverse because of the opportunity it offered. Later, when I tried to move her to a more diverse camp, she resisted—because she liked the access and experience of the first one.

Simone Morris: So I wrestle with making the right decision—knowing what I know as a practitioner and as a parent. You want your child to be happy. There’s a misconception that you always have to choose diversity. But if you don’t, you have to come to terms with that and maybe bring your diverse experience into that space. That’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot.

Tim Villegas: More after a quick break. What can educators and families who want equity—who are pursuing inclusion for learners in their schools—what can they learn from professionals like yourselves? The people who listen to this podcast are mostly educators, and they’re interested in inclusion and inclusive education. When I say inclusion, I’m talking about disability. But really, I want to connect those worlds—people who are interested in disability and inclusion, and also diversity, equity, and inclusion. So for our audience, what do you think they can learn from your space?

Julie Kratz: Yeah, I think they’re intersectional, like you said. I made this mistake myself. Eight years ago, when I started this work, I focused on gender. I’m a white woman, I’m straight, I’m cisgender, and I currently have all my abilities. So I focused on my lived experience. And I think there’s value in that—just like Simone described with being a person of color. That’s a different lens.

Julie Kratz: But like you said, it’s intersectional. When we look at disability—what, a quarter of Americans have a disability? A billion people on the planet. If we’re not talking about that, and we’re only talking about race or gender, we’re missing the intersectional identities that people carry. Especially for kids, who are going to see these lenses as just part of being human.

Julie Kratz: It’s really important to look at the different aspects and nuances of each of those lenses, because they do look and feel very different. Simone, feel free to build on this. But for educators, one of the things we do in the corporate space—similar to Black History Month—is recognize that early December is Disability Awareness Day. And I believe there’s a month in October that also addresses this.

Julie Kratz: That’s an opportunity to bring content into your classroom. Consider having a conversation about what disability is, and what words to use and not use. A lot of people still use outdated terms. I don’t want to repeat them here, but for example, “handicap”—that’s not a word we use anymore. Kids might hear their parents say “handicapped parking,” but that’s outdated language. These are simple things you can talk about.

Julie Kratz: Disability affects children too. Like my daughter—if she hasn’t seen it, it’s hard for her to believe it. She might not even know it’s a thing. But if we talk about it, they won’t be scared or feel shame. They’ll learn that people are different and experience the world differently.

Simone Morris: I’ll take a different angle. I think educators can leverage parents and caregivers as partners. Here’s an example: my daughter was experiencing differences in the classroom. They mix and mingle the classrooms, so there might be a child with different abilities. I remember in preschool, there was a little girl in a wheelchair. They did activities together during recess, but there was no notification to me as a parent. I wasn’t brought in as a partner in the discussion. It was just handled in the classroom.

Simone Morris: We talk a lot about parents meeting children where they are, but there’s some of that needed for parents too. My daughter is learning these skills, and I want to reinforce them at home—but I don’t know what’s going on. I don’t know what the child’s needs are or how to talk about it. That’s an opportunity for educators to communicate.

Simone Morris: For example, we recently received a note: “No birthday parties in the classroom. We have a child with a nut allergy. Life or death. We’ll celebrate birthdays differently. Please don’t send anything with peanuts.” That was a clear notification to all parents. If there’s a child with different abilities, and my daughter is interacting with them—maybe she says, “This person is bothering me”—and I don’t know the context, I might create a totally different story. I’m not well-equipped. I’m just hearing one side. So I think there’s an opportunity for better communication and partnership.

Tim Villegas: Yeah, I can see that for sure. What I’m hearing is that your children’s experiences in school don’t include much interaction with people with disabilities. Isn’t that a problem? If it’s so rare that we have to spotlight it, shouldn’t it be more natural?

Tim Villegas: I know I’m in my territory here, because that’s what we’re promoting—inclusive classrooms where students with and without disabilities learn together, side by side. I’m also speaking from experience as an educator. I taught in a self-contained special education classroom. If one of my students was included in another class, it was sometimes so rare that other kids would come home and say, “This kid is in my class and they’re different and they did this.” But if inclusion were natural, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. What do you think?

Julie Kratz: Exposure is part of the issue. We, as humans, learn from the experiences we’re exposed to. And actually, Tim, when you were sharing that, I found the podcast you were talking about—the Hooks episode. Yeah, okay, you found it.

Simone Morris: Journey. Journey’s World. Yeah.

Julie Kratz: She explained her disability. I think about both of those stories. Journey talked about her own story from the perspective of a child experiencing disability. She shares her story publicly or upon request. Danae shared a story about her daughter, who is unable to walk, uses a wheelchair, and has Rett syndrome. She brings her daughter with her to talk to kids about what she can and can’t do. One thing I remember from both those podcasts is how curious kids are—in a good way. They ask, “Oh, what can she do?” or “How does she do that?” and say, “That’s so cool!” That’s the part that’s neat.

Julie Kratz: It’s the shunning or diminishing of disability that’s learned behavior. Kids don’t come into the world with that. They learn it from us. So the more we can showcase those stories—and that’s the beauty of the virtual world—you can tune in. As an educator, you can find these folks. Feel free to peruse our podcast. Not to tout it, but we’ve had some really great guests.

Tim Villegas: No, no—please tout it.

Julie Kratz: These people do guest speaking, they’ve written books, they talk openly about disability. You can find content online to bring into your classroom—or better yet, bring them in virtually or in person. Finding those stories is key. The folks we’ve had on the podcast have written books or shared their stories in ways that aren’t hours long. You can easily weave them into a 15–20 minute time slot in your curriculum. That’s something we’ve learned too—this isn’t a one-time conversation or something you only talk about one month a year. Consciously sprinkle it in. Once a month, commit to doing something related to disability. Use our podcast as a guide. This is a passion project for Simone and me, so we love to share the content or connect you with great speakers or books.

Tim Villegas: On that note, you mentioned a few podcast episodes. Are there any others you’d recommend? If people want to check out Inclusion School, where’s a good place to start?

Simone Morris: I’d say go to our website, http://inclusionschool.com. Either go to the Resources section—Julie’s team does a great job curating the resources we talk about on the podcast—or go to the Episodes section. You can download resources we’ve put together or ones our guests have shared, whether it’s assessments, book lists, or other tools.

Simone Morris: We referred to Season 2 a lot in this conversation. The episode about using Rett syndrome to teach inclusion is Season 2, Episode 12. Journey’s World is Season 2, Episode 10. And we also have an episode on mental health awareness and support—Season 2, Episode 9. We’re very descriptive in our episode titles, so once you get in, you’ll find what you’re looking for. These are 20–30 minute episodes—perfect for a lunch break or morning listen to spark ideas for how to incorporate inclusion into your day.

Julie Kratz: Yeah, and there’s a slew of webpages with videos, books, and podcasts. We try to link and promote other people’s work too. And I’d just say to listeners—if you know someone who would be a great guest on our podcast, or if you want to be a guest, we’re always looking for new voices. You can contact us through the website or email us at talktous@inclusionschool.com.

Tim Villegas: In inclusive education, we talk a lot about belonging. I wonder, in DEI or in your experience working with businesses and families, where does belonging fit when you talk about inclusion?

Simone Morris: I gave an example earlier—when my daughter was told on the playground, “You don’t belong here.” That’s very close to the concept of inclusion. Does she feel included after someone says that? We use a lot of language around “having a seat at the table.” So, do I belong? Am I welcomed and part of this? How do you include me so I continue to feel like I deserve to be here? I think inclusion and belonging are closely connected and support one another.

Julie Kratz: Yeah, there are a lot of metaphors in this work, especially in the corporate space. One of our favorites is from Vernā Myers, Netflix’s DEI leader. She says, “Diversity is being invited to the party. Inclusion is being asked to dance. Belonging is dancing like no one’s watching.”

Simone Morris: I can do the running man!

Julie Kratz: Yeah, or the car wash—me falling on my butt! But seriously, it’s a different feeling. Even if the school was doing everything right to make Millie feel included, that one kid took all of that away in five seconds. That’s visceral. For parents, caregivers, and educators listening—remember when Simone shared that story? I was so angry, and it didn’t even happen to me. It happened to someone I just met. But it happened to a child.

Julie Kratz: When you think about belonging, our kids all deserve it. We all need it—it’s part of Maslow’s hierarchy. Once you’ve got food and shelter, you need connection and belonging. We’re a social species. If kids don’t feel that belonging and psychological safety as they grow up, that’s a scary thing for mental health. That’s why we see higher rates of mental health challenges. If you’re constantly experiencing microaggressions or macroaggressions, that builds up. It weathers you. We know that kids who experience exclusion face a weathering effect. Belonging is so important.

Julie Kratz: Unfortunately, even in our workplace work, we haven’t yet reached a true culture of belonging. Maybe in small teams, but not in big corporations. We’re just not there yet. And we’ve got to start earlier.

Tim Villegas: Yeah, it’s hard.

Julie Kratz: How do you create that environment? As educators—and we talk with educators a lot—I think it starts with modeling that in your classroom. Whether you have 20, 30, or more kids, how do you foster a sense of belonging so that all kids feel like they can be themselves? Be weird, be authentic—whatever it is. We get social cues from a young age, and it’s sad. You don’t get the best from people when they’re filtering, covering, or pretending to be someone else.

Tim Villegas: I’d like to thank Simone E. Morris and Julie Kratz for being on the Think Inclusive podcast. And please go and listen to the Inclusion School podcast.

Simone Morris: Thank you so much for having us.

Julie Kratz: Yeah, keep in touch. Send us a note at inclusionschool.com. We’d love to hear from you.

Tim Villegas: Think Inclusive is written, edited, and sound-designed by Tim Villegas and is a production of MCIE. Original music by Miles Kredich. If you enjoyed today’s episode, here’s one way you can help our podcast grow: become a patron and get access to ad-free episodes, behind-the-scenes posts, our Together Letters group, and a sneak preview of MCIE’s new podcast series, Inclusion Stories.

Special thanks to our Patrons: Melissa H., Sonia A., Pamela P., Mark C., Kathy B., Kathleen T., Jarrett T., Gabby M., Erin P., and Paula W. for their support of Think Inclusive.

For more information about inclusive education or to learn how MCIE can partner with your school or district, visit http://mcie.org. Thanks for your time and attention. And remember: inclusion always works.