Why UDL Is Not Just Differentiation: A Conversation with Katie Novak ~ 804

Katie Novak:
If you are an educator today, you should be able to predict that if your classroom is inclusive, you’re going to have some students who are struggling with trauma. You’ll have some students who are not reading at grade level. You’ll have students who are language learners who have mild to moderate to severe challenges. And if we know that, why are we still designing one-size-fits-all lessons and then burying ourselves in accommodations? Which is really, in many ways, affecting the integrity and the opportunities that students have.

Tim Villegas:
Hello, and welcome to Season Eight, Episode Four of the Think Inclusive Podcast presented by MCIE. I’m your host, Tim Villegas. This podcast features conversations and commentary with thought leaders in inclusive education and community advocacy. Think Inclusive exists to build bridges between parents, educators, and disability rights advocates to promote inclusion for all students. That’s right, y’all—All means all.

To find out more about who we are and what we do, go to thinkinclusive.us, the official blog of MCIE, and check us out on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

Today on the podcast, we have a conversation with Katie Novak, Universal Design for Learning expert, about some common misconceptions of UDL, how UDL works with students with more significant disabilities, and what it was like for her to lead her school district to implement inclusive education. So stick around. After the break, our conversation with Katie Novak.

Nadia:
Hey there, I invite you to check out Expression Quest, a new podcast hosted by me, Nadia—an artist and designer with complex trauma and autism who’s also a person of color. It features inspiring discussions about creativity and conversations with a variety of artists and creators. We discover how they think about and approach their work, what it means to them, and how it fits into their lives and personal growth journeys. Just search for Expression Quest on your favorite podcast player, or go to anchor.fm/expressionquest to listen and subscribe.

Tim Villegas:
I’d like to welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast, Katie Novak. She is an internationally renowned education consultant, a practicing leader in education, and a graduate instructor at the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education. She’s the author of a number of books, including UDL Now, Innovate Inside the Box, and Equity by Design. Katie designs and presents workshops, both nationally and internationally, focusing on the implementation of Universal Design for Learning, MTSS, inclusive practices, and more. Welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast, Katie.

Katie Novak:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m very happy to be here.

Tim Villegas:
Katie, it’s a pleasure talking with you. Everyone that I work with at the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education is so jealous I have a chance to talk with you and a number of other people in districts that we work with. So thank you for your time.

You are known as being a UDL expert. There’s like 30 years of research around UDL, but still people don’t really know what it is. When you say UDL, you kind of have an idea that it’s this buzzword. So what is it? What are some common myths and misconceptions about what UDL is?

Katie Novak:
Yeah, sure. So what I like to start off with is, what is universal design before we get into what is Universal Design for Learning? Universal design is a concept in architecture. Back in the 1960s, when we were really focused on making all buildings accessible to everybody, there was an architect named Ron Mace who was hired to create more accessibility in these buildings. The buildings just weren’t built for that.

He said, “This is so silly because everyone, when they’re building a building, even hundreds of years ago, can predict that there’s going to be some variability—the people who need to get in. From this point forward, we should universally design all buildings so that anyone can access them. We shouldn’t have to be making accommodations to all of these buildings all the time.”

And that’s essentially the same idea in Universal Design for Learning. Why are we designing lessons where not all students in inclusive and equitable classrooms can learn? When they don’t, we essentially, what I like to say, is almost like we bastardize the lesson by creating all these accommodations that really affect the integrity or rigor of the lesson. When in fact, we can predict this amazing variability of students.

If you are an educator today, you should be able to predict that if your classroom is inclusive, you’re going to have some students who are struggling with trauma, some who are not reading at grade level, some who are language learners with mild to severe challenges. If we know that, why are we still designing one-size-fits-all lessons and then burying ourselves in accommodations?

If we want to ensure equal opportunities to learn, we have to design equitable pathways for students to decide what are the best approaches for them to learn, what materials they need to be supported and challenged, and how they can share with us what they know. So the idea of Universal Design for Learning is: How do we design a lesson that’s flexible enough to support and challenge all students equally by allowing all of them to make decisions about how they learn best?

Katie Novak:
People hear that and say, “Oh, so it’s differentiated instruction.” And then a part of my soul dies a little. It’s not that differentiated instruction isn’t brilliant; it’s just not the same. Universal Design for Learning is much more about embracing the beautiful variability and diversity of every student we serve. We want to make sure they have equal opportunities to learn because the opportunity gap is real and pervasive. In many ways it results in what people call achievement gaps. But if you’re not given the same opportunities to access instruction, we can’t anticipate similar outcomes.

The real power is creating a multitiered system—with Universal Design for Learning as the core—where all students have opportunities to make choices, access grade-level rigor, and become expert learners. It’s also about creating a culture where I can pull individuals or small groups to provide mastery-oriented feedback, help them reflect, and get to know them better, because this work is about relationships.

Tim Villegas:
For a lot of educators, even if they’re not familiar with this concept, they get it theoretically for people with mild disabilities, but not necessarily for students with more significant disabilities—intellectual disabilities, emotional behavior disorders, autism. Do you see this framework also working with students with more significant disabilities?

Katie Novak:
Yes, absolutely. That’s a predictable part of variability. We know we’ll have learners with moderate to severe disabilities or challenges. What’s important is that we’ve been taught those labels mean something definitive for learning—and they don’t. If you take a group of students who have autism, they don’t all need the same thing. The same is true for students with developmental disabilities. Within any group there’s variability, and we need to reject one-size-fits-all thinking across the board.

My thinking is: regardless of who I have, if I embrace variability—that we all have different strengths and weaknesses that are ever-changing based on context—then I know I can never have one-size-fits-all. Since I’m going to provide flexibility and different pathways anyway, why wouldn’t I partner with service providers and special educators to ensure that the pathways absolutely necessary for students with more support needs are provided as access and entry points for all students?

The real challenge sometimes is, “I can’t provide another option because we’re all reading the same text.” In a universally designed class, the question isn’t about the text; it’s about the goal. What’s the firm goal? If the goal is that everyone needs to understand characterization, I might have a short mentor text that students could listen to, read in a small group, read traditionally, or translate. Then I’d want them to pair that with a text they’re passionate about. That means we take time to explore eBooks, visit the library, and choose something that’s best for you.

Katie Novak:
What is necessary for some students is provided to all students, but there’s no ceiling and no floor in a universally designed classroom. When not all students are doing the same thing at the same time, there’s no reason not to welcome students who need significant acceleration as well as students who need significant support.

Tim Villegas:
One of the biggest barriers in the United States is standardized assessments, testing, and accountability measures that tie the hands of educators. Educators say, “I’d like to do this—it sounds great—but I’m accountable because it’s reflected in my evaluation or school scores sent to the state. I’m not sure I can teach this way.” Is that a barrier you’ve come across?

Katie Novak:
I’ve come across it, but it’s a barrier ripe for challenge. What we’re doing right now is incredibly ineffective. Fewer than 40% of students in this country are meeting grade-level standards on national assessments. The traditional way is ineffective at increasing traditional outcomes. That’s a fact.

Second, these assessments should be universally designed. The Every Student Succeeds Act is very clear that state standardized assessments should be universally designed. They’re not there yet, but I’m hopeful we’ll make changes so what we measure aligns with the resources and supports available in college and careers.

Last, as an educator, I’ll say the tests are inaccessible in many ways—especially for some learners. They often focus on literature aligned to dominant culture. So they’re not only inaccessible; they’re often not culturally responsive. But I have a choice as an educator, a school, an administrator: I can continue to teach in an inaccessible way to prepare students for an inaccessible test, or I can teach in an accessible, trauma-informed, engaging, linguistically appropriate, and culturally sustaining way—so students have the knowledge and skills they need—and then they take an inaccessible test.

I advocate for more flexible means of measuring learning. We’re too far along technologically not to provide opportunities to listen to text and use voice-to-text—tools people will always have in life. Right now it feels a bit like a game of “gotcha,” not what students need to be college- and career-ready. Long story short: we’re not doing so well on these tests that it gives us any reason to say, “I can’t do something different.” Beverly Daniel Tatum says, “The work is not about intent; the work is about impact.” Our impact right now is heartbreaking considering how hard people are working. We have to do something different.

Tim Villegas:
There was something I heard you say in one of your videos: “When we value impact over intentions, all of us have equal opportunity to succeed.” Could you expound on that?

Katie Novak:
In education, we often focus more on input than output. Learning is alterable. All students can be successful given the right environment and instruction—conditions of nurture. We must recognize there are things we cannot alter, but there’s a lot more we can. When outcomes aren’t great, it’s easy to say the student isn’t doing their part: “I covered it, offered extra help, did this.” If the student is still not learning, then we have to work together to design something different.

John Dewey wrote an essay called “On Teaching” in 1910: to say you taught something when no one learned it is like saying you sold something that no one bought. It’s transactional. You didn’t teach it if students didn’t learn it. That can hurt, because people go into this work because they love teaching and kids. It’s heartbreaking to do the best you can and not have the impact you want. That requires collaboration, unlearning, learning, and being evidence-informed enough to ask: “When I do this, does it make a difference?” It’s more iterative than traditional education. You can’t design the lesson and say, “I’ll follow it and see how it goes.” What are you going to do if kids aren’t learning?

Tim Villegas:
Right. It’s not enough to just say, “You did the best you can.”

Katie Novak:
Yeah. Moving on to chapter seven.

Tim Villegas:
But you’ve heard those conversations. That’s what happens: “We’ll get them next time or next year.”

Katie Novak:
Right. I believe the intention is good. People are breaking their backs trying to do this, but we’re not using strategies that are truly responsive to students, because we’re doing things one way. Any strategy will likely work for some students and provide a false narrative that what you’re doing is effective. If you don’t truly embrace variability, you say, “I’ll provide direct instruction, then give a quiz,” and some kids do well. See? They were paying attention. But students aren’t the same. We have different cognitive skills, strengths and weaknesses, funds of knowledge, and background knowledge.

Your mood can significantly impact your ability to learn. Even with the right background knowledge and ability to process auditory information, if I’m in high school and just went through a bad breakup, my mind isn’t on your lecture. That’s why we think about barriers beyond academics—creating opportunities for students to self-regulate, find balance, understand and work through emotions. Students will experience trauma. Many will struggle with anger or sadness, often for good reason.

Tim Villegas:
I want to get back to your definition of inclusive education. You use it as part of your language. If someone asked, “What do you mean by inclusive ed?” what does that mean?

Katie Novak:
Inclusive ed starts with inclusive placement. I want every student in the classroom together. If you are in second grade, you get a seat in a general education classroom. If you are in 10th grade, you get a seat in a 10th-grade classroom. You cannot have inclusive practice without proportional inclusive placements—classrooms with rich variability.

An inclusive classroom provides equal opportunities to access information, use materials, and share what students know. To do that right now, it must be accessible, engaging, linguistically and culturally appropriate or sustaining, trauma-informed, and anti-racist. As society evolves, we may need to address barriers that weren’t previously on our radar. We need to ensure ableism, racism, and societal heaviness don’t prevent students from learning in our classrooms.

Tim Villegas:
Let’s talk about your time in school administration. I think I heard you mention percentages of LRE around 90% or more. In data I can see from districts MCIE has worked with, that 90% seems consistent for districts implementing inclusive practices with fidelity for years. What was your experience leading a district toward inclusion? What was that like for you as a leader?

Katie Novak:
For the past six years, I was the assistant superintendent of schools. I’m no longer working full-time in that district. I still facilitate professional learning part-time, but I’m not in a district-level administration role. When I was in that role, one thing we wanted to ensure was supplementing, not supplanting. If I had a T-shirt, it would say “Supplement, not supplant.”

Every student is a general education student. Some general education students need special education services. I dislike the term “special education students.” We have students with disabilities, yes, but they are general education students who have disabilities—that’s a beautiful part of their identity—and they also receive special education. I’m a mom of a daughter with complex needs. My daughter is a general education student first. She’s proud to have ADHD, has a language-based learning disability, and a mood disorder. That’s a beautiful part of who she is. I see her as a fierce light, and I don’t want paperwork to reduce her to “a special ed student.”

Students who need special education services must receive them in addition to what is rightfully theirs as general education students. All the work we’ve seen on the least restrictive environment is that every student needs to be placed in the least restrictive environment available to them. On a continuum of services, the least restrictive environment is always a general education classroom. Only when we cannot make that classroom more inclusive do we add additional supports: paraeducator support, co-teaching, small group, substantially separate settings, and then, if necessary, out-of-district placements and residential settings.

Katie Novak:
You can find me at novakeducation.com—lots of blogs and information about my books. My two most recent books were awesome partnerships. Equity by Design was co-written with my dear friend Mirko Chardin. He’s brilliant. We juxtapose our educations—me as a white woman raised middle-class and him as a Black man—and talk about how the system was designed in many ways for my family and me, and how exclusionary it was to Mirko. We grew up a half hour from each other yet led different lives because of the color of our skin.

I also wrote Unlearning with Allison Posey, about how in professional learning we usually try to add more and learn more, when we often have to forget and let go of practices taking up mental space.

Tim Villegas:
Fantastic. Katie Novak, it was a pleasure to have you on the Think Inclusive Podcast. Thank you for your time.

Katie Novak:
Thank you. I had a blast.

Tim Villegas:
That will do it for this episode of the Think Inclusive Podcast. If you’d like to hear the entire unedited 38-minute conversation with Katie Novak, go to patreon.com/thinkinclusivepodcast to become a patron today. Help us reach our goal of 50 patrons, and we will produce one additional podcast per month only for our patrons. Your contribution helps with audio production, transcription, and promotion. Thank you for helping us equip more people to promote and sustain inclusive education.

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This podcast is a production of MCIE, where we envision a society where neighborhood schools welcome all learners and create the foundation for inclusive communities. Learn more at mcie.org.

We will be back in March with our guest Alfie Kohn, author of Punished by Rewards, among many others. We’ll discuss whether there’s a difference between bribing and positive reinforcement, and alternatives to rewards in education.

Thanks for your time and attention. See you next time.