Maya Chupkov: Advocating for Stuttering Awareness Through Podcasting ~ 1105

Tim Villegas
Hi friends, I’m Tim Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education, and you are listening to Thinking Inclusive, our podcast that brings you conversations about inclusive education and what inclusion looks like in the real world.

Have I mentioned that I love making podcasts? And something else that I love is interviewing podcasters. This week, I want to introduce you to a phenomenal podcaster who is already making waves—not only in the podcast industry but also with her advocacy waves, you know, like audio waves. Sorry.

Maya Chupkov is the host of the podcast Proud Stutter and a passionate advocate for people who stutter. She is the Media and Democracy Program Manager at California Common Cause, where part of her work focuses on supporting local journalism. Maya is dedicated to raising awareness about stuttering and creating a more inclusive society for individuals who stutter.

For this episode, Maya discusses some common misconceptions about people who stutter and her personal experience with stuttering. She shares that people often assume people who stutter are unsure or not confident in what they are saying or that they are shy. However, Maya emphasizes that she is outgoing and not shy, despite growing up being labeled as such due to her stutter.

Maya also discusses the importance of creating a safe and inclusive environment for individuals who stutter and the need for more education and awareness around stuttering.

This week, I’d like to highlight one of the sponsors for our narrative podcast series Inclusion Stories: Communication First. Communication First is the only nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting and advancing the civil rights of the more than 5 million children and adults in the United States who, due to disability or other conditions, cannot rely on speech alone to be heard and understood. Their mission is to protect and advance the rights, autonomy, opportunity, and dignity of people with speech-related disabilities through public engagement, policy and practice reform, and systemic advocacy. Learn more at communicationfirst.org.

We’ve got a great conversation for you today that will help all of us to think inclusive. Stick around till the end for the mystery question. And for free time this week, we’re giving you the first five minutes of our new podcast series Inclusion Stories. We’ll be back after a quick break.

Tim Villegas
Maya Chupkov, thank you for joining us on Thinking Inclusive.

Maya Chupkov
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so happy to be here.

Tim Villegas
Me too. Maya and I have gotten to know each other a little bit through various podcasting activities and communities with disabled creators in them. I’m really excited to have a conversation around stuttering. To jump off, why don’t you tell our listeners: what are some common misconceptions about people who stutter?

Maya Chupkov
Yes, so some common misconceptions about stuttering are that we don’t really know what we’re trying to say. Because often our speech has a lot of pausing and thinking about our words and trying not to stutter, that can sometimes come off as if we’re unsure or not confident.

Another misconception is that we’re shy, which is probably my least favorite one because I grew up being called shy since I would shy away from certain social situations because of my stutter. For those who really know me, they know that I’m the opposite of shy. Those are some top-of-mind ones that come up right now.

Tim Villegas
Yeah, so you are not shy. How would you describe yourself as far as personality?

Maya Chupkov
I would say I’m very outgoing. I’m a people person. My favorite part of my current job is building relationships with others and working together toward solutions. I’m very much a relationship-oriented person.

At the same time, because so much of my podcasting and day job involves constantly talking and being in social situations, I really need my alone time as well. So I would say the cliché thing I hear a lot: I’m an extroverted introvert.

Tim Villegas
I think that’s a trait among podcasters in general. I would also describe myself as an extroverted introvert—very much a people person, love having conversations. There’s something about a one-to-one conversation or a one-to-two conversation, but when you add a third or fourth person, then I become much more quiet. I don’t know if that is the same for you.

Maya Chupkov
Yes, exactly. That’s exactly me.

Tim Villegas
Sometimes we’ll be at parties or in big groups, and people look at me like, “What’s going on? Why are you so quiet?” I just like to listen. I think that’s probably one of the reasons why I like podcasting so much—because you have this really dedicated time to listen to another person. I really like that.

While I’m thinking of it, you mentioned your day job. Is that something you wanted to share?

Maya Chupkov
Sure. I work at California Common Cause, which is a good government, nonpartisan nonprofit. We’re national, but I work for the California team. My policy area is local journalism. Part of my job is to build coalitions so we can pass policies to help support local journalism, which actually has a lot of intersections with podcasting because there are many local journalism podcasts out there. It’s nice to have that overlap.

Tim Villegas
Yeah. And I think Common Cause was part of—was the California State Legislature doing something about Stuttering Awareness? Tell us about that.

Maya Chupkov
That was kind of outside my California Common Cause hat, but I did use a lot of the skills I’ve learned from being around policy and communications to implement toward stuttering. So yeah, that was separate but adjacent to what I do in my day-to-day job. It was nice to build relationships within the California Legislature around democracy issues and disability justice issues as well.

Tim Villegas
Right. Was it that they recognized a week of Stuttering Awareness or a day?

Maya Chupkov
Yeah, we worked with the future Speaker of the Assembly—he’s getting sworn in in a few days. I partnered with my friend Johnny Pina, who also stutters and is a lobbyist in Sacramento. We learned that Assemblymember Robert Rivas stutters himself, so we thought we could partner with him on California recognizing Stuttering Awareness Week, which is the second week of May every year.

We did a lot of planning. It took time and effort, but we were able to get California to officially recognize Stuttering Awareness Week. We went up to Sacramento, did a press conference, and invited people who stutter and allies within the disability justice movement. It was the most amazing experience.

Tim Villegas
That’s fantastic. Wonderful advocacy—really grateful for your work. Tell us about the decision to make a podcast and call it Proud Stutter. Why was it important for you to make this podcast? And why audio instead of TikTok or YouTube?

Maya Chupkov
I chose podcasting as my medium because I thought it would be the easiest to start. I found so many resources online and groups helping people start podcasts. It was daunting to do it alone, so I talked to a few people to see who might want to do it with me. One of my best friends, Cynthia Chin, decided to take this on with me. Having it be a team effort really helped me just do it.

Stuttering didn’t come into the mix until my husband, Kyle, suggested it as a topic. At first, I thought, “Huh, interesting.” The more I thought about it, the more I realized it would be so cool. But I had never really talked to anyone about stuttering—only a few people—so I needed to explore that part of myself before sharing it with the world.

Slowly, I started talking to more people about it. After each conversation, I felt lighter and more myself than ever. It became more than podcasting—it was about sharing my authentic self in a way I never had. I’d done therapy throughout my life, but stuttering never came up. That’s how deep it was hidden. So it was the perfect combination of wanting to do a podcast and having this self-discovery moment.

Tim Villegas
So it sounds like it came at the right time for you.

Maya Chupkov
Yes, perfect time.

Tim Villegas
What was your experience as a stutterer? You said in therapy it didn’t come up. Was it on your mind? Did you feel excluded because of your stuttering?

Maya Chupkov
If I dig deep—which I’ve been able to do through podcasting—it’s been its own form of therapy. I realize I was so ashamed of my stutter that I didn’t want to talk about it. The more I talked about it, the more real it was. I did feel a lot of exclusion because of my stuttering, but I never acknowledged it. Looking back, I was singled out a lot—in classrooms, jobs, all that. It wasn’t something I was ready to talk about until very recently.

Tim Villegas
I remember listening to one of your episodes about the psychology of the response to stuttering. You and your guest mentioned that when you’re talking to someone, they get this look. Can you explain that?

Maya Chupkov
The cool part is, I can tell you that when I see someone missing an arm, I stare. As soon as I notice, I catch myself. What I learned in that episode is that our body is set up psychologically to respond to things that are surprising or shocking. It’s a natural response.

With stuttering, when people experience it for the first time, there’s a look that happens. It’s just a psychological thing. The more we’re aware of that natural response, the more we can train ourselves not to respond that way. It made me think I can give people a break when it happens but also use it as an opportunity to educate. So I feel two things at once: annoyed but understanding.

The look is something I hear over and over again. Every person who stutters has experienced it and will continue to, unfortunately.

Tim Villegas
We’ve talked about you feeling excluded because of your stuttering or the way people responded to it. Has there been a time where you’ve really felt included or accepted?

Maya Chupkov
Yes. I’m so happy that Common Cause—my work family—has accepted me with open arms since I started. It’s the first workplace where I feel like if I stutter, it’s not going to be, “Oh, you’re not prepared,” or “You need to sound a certain way.”

I talk to funders, and I even tell them, “Hey, I stutter.” I’ve had high-stress situations where I have to communicate a certain way, but I’ve learned how to be my authentic self and stutter openly while still getting my point across. Not everyone fully understands stuttering—there’s only so much educating you can do in a conversation—but I’ve started to develop that sweet spot of being comfortable sharing.

Tim Villegas
I have a friend with Tourette syndrome who says his tics increase under stress. Does that happen with stuttering?

Maya Chupkov
Not for everyone, but for me, yes. There have been stressful moments in my life where my stuttering increased. The more pressure I put on myself—often from stress—the more I stutter.

Tim Villegas
What are some ways to help if you have a stutter in your life or experience it yourself?

Maya Chupkov
First, be aware of your face and how you react to stuttering. That can be very triggering for someone who stutters. Second, be patient—let them finish their sentences. That doesn’t apply to everyone because some people like when others help with words, but for me, I don’t like when people finish my sentences.

Third, I like when people ask questions about my stutter. Acknowledge it—it’s fine. For some people, they’d rather you just listen, but I’m comfortable talking about it. If people ask me, I’m like, “Thank you for asking.”

Tim Villegas
Do you have a question you get most often?

Maya Chupkov
Not a question, but a common response: because I often pass as fluent, when I tell people I have a stutter, they say, “Oh, I haven’t heard that. Did you overcome it?” I try to be compassionate, but sometimes I just want to say, “No, I didn’t overcome it. I struggle with it every day.”

Tim Villegas
Yeah. That reminds me of when people say to autistic folks, “You don’t look autistic.” There are parallels.

I want to congratulate you because I heard you were awarded funding for a documentary series. Tell us more about that.

Maya Chupkov
Yes! It’s one of the biggest milestones we’ve had. The grant is from California Humanities, which is very competitive. It’s part of their Documentary Production grant, which rarely goes to podcasts. I got $35K to create an audio documentary series on Californians who stutter.

The story arc is past, present, and future, and each theme focuses on one geographic area of California. For example, Hollywood will be in the past section—there’s a woman named Marion Davies, a silent film actress who stuttered and had to transition to sound. Another episode focuses on the history of the stuttering movement in the Bay Area.

It’s fun digging into these stories and seeing intersections. It’s overwhelming because I’ve never done anything like this, but it’s a three-year grant, so I have time.

Tim Villegas
Yeah, and you’re going to need it, which is great. What about podcasting in general and Proud Stutter—what are your hopes and dreams? Where do you want to take this?

Maya Chupkov
I definitely want to do more advocacy around policy to make life easier and safer for people who stutter. I also want to educate as many people as possible about stuttering—through the podcast, documentary projects, and speaking engagements at podcasting conferences or other events.

I want to be in as many spaces as possible to keep spreading the word because it’s sad that we still live in a world where stuttering is openly made fun of and no one says anything. The Disability Justice Movement has come a long way—if someone says something about certain disabilities, there’s immediate pushback. But when you make a stuttering joke in a TV episode, it’s still considered funny.

Tim Villegas
That’s really interesting. Do you mind if I ask—what was the thing that changed? You said a couple of years ago you began to self-identify.

Maya Chupkov
The first time I ever came out to a group of people who weren’t close friends but acquaintances I respected—that was the lightbulb moment. These were people I cared about what they thought of me, so I never talked about my stutter because I thought it was negative.

When I opened up to them, they understood me so much more. It made me realize I’d been having surface-level relationships my whole life because I was hiding such a big part of myself. That moment made me realize I needed to feel this more—showing who I really am.

Tim Villegas
Thank you for sharing that. How can people listening support what you’re doing with Proud Stutter? Are you taking donations for the documentary?

Maya Chupkov
We’re starting a crowdfunding campaign for the documentary. In the meantime, you can go to proudstutter.com/donate to support the organization. I’m still producing regular Proud Stutter episodes while working on the documentary, so all support goes toward making great content.

Another way to support that costs nothing: share the podcast with five friends and tell them to check it out.

Tim Villegas
Fantastic. You mentioned a couple of people earlier, but who else should we be listening to or reading if we want to know more about stuttering?

Maya Chupkov
One book is by Laura Gabrielle—it’s a biography on Marion Davies. If you search Laura Gabrielle and Marion Davies, it should pop up. Another book is Life on Delay by John Hendrickson. Those two books are great for understanding the stuttering experience.

Tim Villegas
Fantastic. We have a lot of teachers who listen to Thinking Inclusive. We didn’t really get into your school experience, but if you could talk to them directly, what do you hope educators take away from this conversation?

Maya Chupkov
We interviewed an elementary school teacher who stutters, and that episode has everything you need to know about teaching someone who stutters. But for this interview, I’ll say: dedicate time during the year to talk about stuttering—maybe during Stuttering Awareness Week or National Stuttering Awareness Day.

Open the conversation with your class. If I’d had a teacher do that as a kid, I think I would’ve felt more comfortable with my stutter. I also have bookmarks with stuttering how-tos—they’re free. If you want me to mail you some, I can.

Tim Villegas
Free bookmarks—amazing! Is that on your website, or should someone email you?

Maya Chupkov
It’s not something I share publicly, but since we’re talking about teachers, it’s a great resource. Email me at info@proudstutter.com, and I can send you a few.

Tim Villegas
Okay, hopefully you don’t get 100 emails, but we do want people to listen and share Proud Stutter, especially if you’re an educator. Thank you for sharing that.

Coming up next—the mystery question. Are you up for it, Maya?

Maya Chupkov
Yes.

Tim Villegas
Okay, I have a stack of cards from Pod Decks. I pick a random question, and then we both answer it. Ready?

Maya Chupkov
Yes, I’m ready.

Tim Villegas
Here we go: Were you ever really passionate about something and then suddenly lost interest? If so, what was it?

Maya Chupkov
Wow, that is an amazing question.

Tim Villegas
Do you want me to go first?

Maya Chupkov
Yes.

Tim Villegas
The only thing that comes to mind right now—I think there are a number of things—but I’ll say baseball cards. When I was in middle school, my uncle was a stockbroker. He would buy baseball cards as investments—not just packs, but individual cards of the same person, like 100 of them.

I’d go with him to baseball card conventions in my hometown. I had my stack of cards in sleeves, and I’d try to sell and buy cards. I was always thinking about how much my collection was worth. I even cataloged all my cards in a database. It was so nerdy. I spent so many hours doing it. And now I have zero baseball cards. They’re all gone.

Maya Chupkov
Oh, wow.

Tim Villegas
So that’s probably one because I was so into it. What about you?

Maya Chupkov
This is probably not as good as your answer, but I was a very competitive volleyball player when I was young—like 12 and 11. I went to the Junior Olympics in volleyball. It was intense. I wanted to go all the way.

After my second season of club and going to the Junior Olympics, I was exhausted. I felt like I was missing out on so much because everything was volleyball—practice twice a week, missing out on stuff with friends. I realized after two years that I wanted to do more with my life than volleyball. So I went from having this dream to just wanting to be a kid.

Tim Villegas
Yeah, that’s so real. And that happens—you’re like, “I’m done with this.”

Maya Chupkov
Yeah. Now I play in a league every week. I still have volleyball, but it’s so much more fun.

Tim Villegas
That’s awesome. I’m glad you still have that outlet. Maya Chupkov, thank you so much for being on the Thinking Inclusive podcast.

Maya Chupkov
Thank you. This was fun.

Tim Villegas
That chime means it’s free time. Inclusion Stories is MCIE’s new narrative podcast series about families and school districts fully committed to inclusive practices for each and every learner. Please enjoy the first five minutes of Chapter One. After you listen, search for Inclusion Stories in your favorite podcast player to follow or subscribe, or click the link in the show notes. Here we go.

If you ever want to feel old, hang out with eight- and nine-year-olds. They have limitless energy.

Unknown Speaker
Cabo! Cabo!

Tim Villegas
That’s Natalia and her sister singing into the microphones I just set up in the Shands’ living room/kitchen. You’ll meet them in a minute. It’s mid-August in Georgia, and if you know anything about the South, it’s humid, and school is starting for many kids in the area.

But what you may not know about public schools in the South—and across the United States—is that there are two educational systems: general education and special education. Not everyone explains it like this, but this is the reality for the vast majority of students.

I should know. I was a special education teacher for 16 years and spent over a decade teaching in segregated, disability-specific classrooms. I saw firsthand how inequitable our school systems are regarding learners with disabilities.

If you don’t already have personal experience with special education, you may not realize why segregating students with disabilities in separate classrooms is a problem.

I’m Tim Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education, and you are listening to Inclusion Stories, our podcast series that tells the stories of families, educators, and school systems on their journey to full and authentic inclusive education for each and every learner.

Unknown Speaker
Hold me back on a buy. Hold on the hammer Bama.

Tim Villegas
We call this Chapter One: “It Is a Long Story.”

It’s the last few days of the 2022 school year, and I’m waiting for my daughter to come home on the bus. A warm spring breeze is in the air, and the promise of summer is right around the corner. For my daughter and nearly everyone in our neighborhood, since the first day of kindergarten, there has never been a question where they will go to elementary school—it’s the one closest to our house, practically across the street.

But for most families who have children receiving special education services for disabilities like autism or intellectual disability, the question of where they will go to school is not so straightforward. Many times, the location of the school and what kind of classroom a child is educated in—or even the bus they ride—is based on the characteristics of their disability.

That’s why some families have gone to extreme lengths to have their child included in their home school with their peers who don’t have disabilities.

But first, why should you or I care about inclusive education? What does inclusive education mean anyway? And how does a school or district become inclusive?

I promise we’ll get to all of that in this series. But right now, I want to talk about why inclusive education is important. In my opinion, there are three main reasons.

The first is that it’s the law. There is an education law called the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, and it says a few really interesting things. Here are some of them:

• A learner with a disability should be educated in the same classroom as they would if they didn’t have a disability.
• Special education is a service, not a place.
• Special services should go to the learner, not the other way around.
• If the learner needs modifications to their lessons to make them accessible, this should not be a reason to remove them from a general education classroom.

The second reason is the overwhelming amount of research showing that inclusive education benefits everyone. I could fill up a whole podcast series just talking about the research, but here’s the only finding you need to know right now:

According to a report published by the National Council on Disability, the opportunity for students to participate in their neighborhood school alongside their peers without disabilities is influenced more by the zip code in which they live, their race, and disability label than by meeting the federal law defining how student placements should be made.

And finally—and this one is real simple—it’s the right thing to do, y’all.

Just hold on to that thought for a second. After a short break, I’ll introduce you to a family that was so desperate to have their child included, they did something drastic.

For more information about inclusive education or to learn how you can partner with MCIE on school transformation or professional learning opportunities, visit MCIE.org.

Thanks again to Communication First for being one of our amazing sponsors for Inclusion Stories. We could not have done this project without you.

Love Thinking Inclusive? Here are a few ways to let us know:

• Rate us on Spotify or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.
• Become a patron for extra stuff.

In our bonus clip this week, Maya and I talk about an article in The Atlantic about President Joe Biden and his stuttering, a book written by a person who stutters, and what it’s like to come out as a person who stutters. It’s all included if you’re a patron. If you’re not, why don’t you join these fine people?

Thank you to Carol Q., Aaron P., Jarrett T., Joiner A., Cathy V., Mark C., Gabby M., Kathleen T., and Paulette W. We appreciate your continued support of Thinking Inclusive.

Thinking Inclusive is written, edited, designed, mixed, and mastered by me, Tim Villegas. Original music by Miles Kredich. Additional music from Melody.

Thanks for your time and attention. And remember: inclusion always works.

Tim Villegas
Well, cool. That was fun. Thanks, Pod Decks. Not a sponsor, but hey—

Maya Chupkov
Oh yeah. Oh my gosh, they should sponsor you.

Tim Villegas
I think I’m gonna ask. I’m just gonna send an email: “Listen, I’m repping your stuff every single episode here.”

Maya Chupkov
I ask for sponsorships all the time and haven’t gotten one yet, but I’m still gonna ask.

Tim Villegas
All they can say is no, right?

Maya Chupkov
Exactly.

Tim Villegas
There you go. All right, I’m gonna sign us off, but don’t go anywhere.

From MCIE.