Navigating School Leadership in Chaotic Times: A Conversation with Will Parker ~ 1306

Will Parker

What do I do with the emotions of a current event that has captivated the attention of everyone in our country and worldwide, but also is accelerating the divide that we already knew was present? This is the only thing that gives me hope: I’m still seeing people that are committed to doing whatever it takes to love kids, take care of kids, take care of families. You don’t need anybody’s permission to do that, just do it. I don’t need a national platform to help my neighbor.

Tim Villegas

Hi friends. Welcome back to Think Inclusive: Real Conversations about building schools where every learner belongs. I’m your host, Tim Villegas. Today’s episode is about navigating the emotional weight of current events, the impact of political rhetoric on schools, and how educators can stay grounded in their mission to serve students in communities, especially when the world feels upside down. Our guest is Will Parker, an educator, author, and executive coach who helps school leaders build strong cultures, communication, and community through his work at Principal Matters. He’s a former principal and host of the Principal Matters podcast, and he’s passionate about helping educators lead with heart.

We talk about how school leaders can stay centered in the chaos, why local action matters more than ever, and what it means to lead with compassion when the pressure is high and the stakes are personal. And just so you know, we are talking about current events, but I’m being intentionally vague here. This is partly because I want to ensure this conversation applies to many different situations and contexts. My goal is to emphasize how we lead through difficult times, not to dissect any particular event or debate who’s right or wrong. Before we meet our guest, I want to tell you about our sponsor.

This episode is brought to you by IXL. IXL is an all-in-one platform for K-12 that helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress in one place. As students practice, IXL adapts to their individual needs so that every learner gets just-right support and challenge, and each student gets a personalized learning plan to close gaps. Check it out at ixl.com/inclusive. Again, that’s ixl.com/inclusive. All right, after a quick break, it’s time to think inclusive with Will Parker. Catch you on the other side. Oh, and a quick production note: Will and I just jump right into our conversation. No pre-screened questions. In fact, we just hit the record button and went.

Tim Villegas

I need to process this. Help me understand, help me understand.

Will Parker

No, I think what you’re expressing, Tim, is what a lot of people are laboring with right now: what do I do with the emotions of a current event that has captivated the attention of everyone in our country and worldwide, but also is accelerating the divide that we already knew was present and is not allowing us to really have productive conversations about where we disagree in our politics or our culture.

Over the last several years, what I’ve discovered—and this came home to me a couple of years back when we had a suicide of a student here within my own community in Owosso, and the student was non-binary. Good meaning people immediately began to call for investigations and justice and began to form opinions about what happened, but without any firsthand knowledge. Because I live in the community and know people who have firsthand knowledge, it took a couple of weeks for the firsthand knowledge to come out. What people assumed had happened—many were assuming she had been murdered, injured in a fight, all these things—when you uncovered all the details, you recognized the complexity of a situation of a troubled youth who was also in trouble at school, who was also in conflict at school, and ended up committing suicide. The tragedy itself didn’t change; there were heartbroken families and people involved, but the attention that our community received from national pundits, voices and podcasts, people showing up at our board meetings with cameras, were really well-meaning but not recognizing the grief and the agony that our teachers and administrators and board members are going through, because they knew these children firsthand. They also worked with these families firsthand. The reality of that situation versus the perception was so different. It was really kind of a wake-up call. I remember my son in particular, who was wrapping up high school at the time, was just like, I will never look at any media posts the same ever again because I recognize now that the versions of things that are being displayed aren’t necessarily the reality.

So with that context, Tim, I just have to first take a step back from any moment that we’re in and go: when people respond to what they’re seeing viscerally, emotionally, with heartfelt anguish or the other side, they feel defensive or they feel like they need to make a statement, to add nuance to the politics or whatever. It’s almost an impossibility because there’s so much emotion wrapped up in it, it’s really until the smoke clears often that you actually can see the context of what was really going on in these situations. I don’t pay attention to a lot of the rhetoric that’s been happening and I’ve really stopped paying a lot of attention in the last five years on purpose.

Tim Villegas

Yeah.

Will Parker

Because I’m a person who works, as you know, with mostly school leaders. I work in public, charter, private, Catholic, all those different sections. And what I’ve seen, just like you, I care deeply about students and inclusivity. What I’ve seen is that the culture war rhetoric that’s happening through social media and in a lot of these platforms—on the ground in schools, when I’m working with teachers and leaders—they just want to know: how do I still take care of these kids and what do we do to make sure that they belong? How do we manage the situation and the family and the child right in front of us? I’m not saying the political rhetoric isn’t important or that it doesn’t affect or stress out teachers and leaders, because it can create enormous amounts of stress. I live in a state where there’s a lot of stress because of political rhetoric and because of a state superintendent who has dove in so deep into the culture war that it’s just a constant battle coming from his office, the things that he puts out through his statements.

But when it comes to real people, real schools, real life, not in front of a screen, I’m still seeing—and this is the only thing that gives me hope—I’m still seeing people that are committed to doing whatever it takes to love kids, take care of kids, take care of families. You can swing the pendulum whatever direction you want in the politics, and they’re still showing up, committed every single day. For me, I’ve just had to really take a breath and make a commitment to be aware of what’s going on, but not allow it to cloud the reality of what I see in real life.

Tim Villegas

Yeah. Yeah.

Will Parker

The other thing I would say is, the next time you feel overwhelmed by all the static in whatever you’re seeing digitally, go have a conversation with a real person—even somebody with whom you may disagree. What you’re going to discover is it’s a lot harder to have a conversation with sound bites and one-liners because every relationship is nuanced. It’s in those real relationships where we’re going to make a difference. That’s one of the reasons why we just had an election here in our community this week on Tuesday. It was a new bond issue for our local school. I tell you, I was way more excited about going to vote for that than I was in a presidential election, because I knew this election was actually going to directly, firsthand impact my community. What goes out in Washington may eventually affect my community, but it’s not directly impacting the services and the opportunities and the facilities and the teachers and the people that are touching the kids that live in these neighborhoods, like that bond issue will. So I’ve also had to kind of turn it on its head a little bit in terms of my own political involvement because I know I can make a much bigger difference showing up to a board meeting, or voting in a local election, or showing up for a town conversation with some elected leaders. Even if we don’t agree on national politics, we can almost always find common ground around our community. So, those are just some thoughts I’d start with, Tim.

Tim Villegas

I appreciate that. I appreciate that a lot. I think I have been searching for a conversation about this because I have my personal kind of interaction with what I think about politics and just media and communications in the big sense. So I’m keyed into the conversation around certain things. Specifically, things that are really important to me are immigration, LGBTQ plus issues, disability, even faith. So those are kind of things that I’m paying attention to, you know?

Will Parker

Yeah, and you should.

Tim Villegas

Yeah. And so those are the things that were on my mind and I just am having—I haven’t had a real nuanced conversation about this yet. And it’s really fresh, it’s really fresh.

Will Parker

Yeah. So first let me just talk to you like a friend, which is: it’s hard, man. There’s a lot of ache when you are trying to understand what’s going on out in the world and the rhetoric around the issues that we care about just becomes so vitriol and so harmful. And also there’s this sense now of: how do you even parse through a time when… I’m a former English teacher, so I remember vividly teaching George Orwell’s Animal Farm. You know the scene where the animals start painting their logos on the barn and basically it’s propaganda of the day, and they become the thing that they’re overthrowing. You’ve seen all these movements to kind of correct media or to try to tell the story, and instead of people sharing facts, they’re just sharing their version of the facts. It’s painful to turn on the news or to try to listen to current day politicians talk and realize: wow, this is an upside down version of reality. It just is an upside down version of reality.

So, I don’t know if this is helpful, but I just have to keep taking a step back. I’ll talk about it from a position of my faith, but also just kind of position of history and literature. I’ll put on my English teacher hat and then I’ll put on my person of faith hat. As a person who loves literature, this isn’t the first time we’ve been through cycles like this. Almost every time period that’s ever existed, and especially since I’m someone who loves to read classics and I love to go back to ancient documents like the Iliad and the Odyssey, Shakespeare’s works. These are the same themes that have been bandied around in, at least in western culture, for a long time too. But if you study any culture, it’s not the first rodeo. I was just reading yesterday a piece about when the Roman Republic became the Roman Empire. In the Republic of Rome, you had elected officials who were making decisions based on the input of their electorate. So you had shared, elected officials making government decisions until it became an empire. It became an empire when the leader decided to become the emperor. All of the Caesars that ruled through the Roman Empire ruled from a position of one man authority. So Will’s little radars go off and I’m like, there’s a danger when you have a country whose constitutional frameworks are set up with three branches of government, and the executive branch becomes the only one in charge. That’s no longer a democratic republic, that’s called an empire.

So I’m always comparing current events to historical events and just going, we should probably pause and look at this from the perspective of history. Then from a person of faith, I just have to put on that hat and go: if the scriptures I’m reading, or the prayers I’m reciting, or the traditions that I’ve embraced go back thousands and thousands of years and the histories of those writings and those peoples and those cultures, these same cycles were happening over and over again. What were the responses of God-fearing people then? Which was to recognize that at the end of the day, there’s only really one sovereign over all of mankind and over all of creation, and I have to believe in his justice and goodness to set things right that are so wrong right now. So I just have to find my peace there first.

And then, yeah, of course, as a follower of the teachings of Jesus, I have to look at: at the end of the day—and I’ve read all four of the gospels and I’ve read the New Testament—in those gospels, Jesus usually saved his compassion and healing for the outcasts and his rebukes for the powerful. So I’ve got to keep that in mind too, Tim.

I don’t think you’re out of your mind if you’re frustrated, if you’re overwhelmed, or if you need some sense of: is there anybody else out there that feels this insanity? I’ve heard some politicians who are trying to bridge the gaps say this, and I can’t quote the statistics, but I hope it’s true that there’s a majority in the middle who are so tired of all of the extreme rhetorics, who would really just love to be good neighbors to each other. That’s why I just come full circle to what I said at the beginning: those are the kinds of people I’m meeting when I’m in schools and working with, in talking to my neighbors.

Tim Villegas

Yeah. Yeah. I needed this conversation today, Will, I needed it. I just need to know that there are people out there that are viewing the world as upside down. It is, it’s absolutely upside down.

Will Parker

Yeah. And it’s global.

Tim Villegas

After the break, Will shares how the chaos of national politics and social media has reshaped how we see the world, and why he believes the real work of healing and change happens in our local communities. Before we jump back in, I want to take a minute to tell you about the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. MCIE partners with educators and school systems to promote authentic inclusion, foster change, and support the implementation of inclusive practices. Whether it’s district-wide transformation, customized learner planning, or professional learning and coaching, MCIE walks alongside educators every step of the way. And here’s the best part: our work begins with a conversation. So if you are ready to create schools where every learner belongs, visit mcie.org to get in touch and start that conversation today.

Will Parker

We’re talking current events. Nepal is burning down its buildings and it’s over. You can pick any place in the world right now and you’re just like, wow, this feels upside down. It was actually my son who, when he was taking high school government classes, came home with that comment to me one day, and I’ve held onto that: Dad, you recognize that every political era has a pendulum swing. So right after the Civil Rights movement, what happened? There was a huge swing back: no, we don’t want to desegregate our schools, so we’re going to move all of our children to the suburbs. All these things that have happened that we’ve lived through historically, because people have these huge swings. After the—and again, I don’t want to put myself in a box politically, but I’m just speaking my mind too—but I think we’ve, in our lifetime since the election of Barack Obama, we saw a pendulum swing. People just… I don’t know when this pendulum’s going to swing again, but I think people in the middle are really tired of the swings.

Tim Villegas

Yeah. I remember, this was 2008 because that’s when Obama first got elected. The day after the election, I went to school. This is my first—I had lived in California and taught in California, and I had just barely moved to Georgia. I was not used to living in a state that was not liberal or overly, overly D in their affiliation. The amount of people that were, it seemed like, in literal mourning—mourning as in sadness—it was wild.

Will Parker

I remember at the time, we were attending—we’re church attenders—and I would say that the church at the time that we’re attending, if you had to take the temperature in the audience, you know that the majority of the people were conservative voters. I just remember the courage of our pastor standing up and just saying, you may or may not have whatever your voting was, isn’t it historical? This is a historical moment that we should all be paying attention to, you know? The first African American man to be… I remember sensing some of the gasps, you know, and it… It’s funny, because if you think about 2008 versus 2016 versus 2024, every—I mean, we have lived through such a metamorphosis of political discourse that you fast forward from that time till now, there’s no longer one or two or three just sources of news. Now people just get it through their phones from whoever they think is the authority.

Tim Villegas

Exactly.

Will Parker

There’s been a decentralization of information and of news. There’s been a decentralization within politics because now instead of appointing cabinet members based on expertise, you appoint them based on television appearance and their ability to say what’s supposed to be said. At the same time, I think we’ve become probably more aware of what people really think than we have before too. It’s a change for sure, and I’m not going to try to put the blame on one place or one industry, but I will say this—and we’re actually using a technology right now that gives us the ability to speak to each other or others—but billionaire, I’m going to call them bazillionaire tech companies have no government regulation. They have become the places where people find information, misinformation, and share both of those. Whether it’s Facebook or X, Instagram, Google, Amazon, whatever it is, these companies have already showed that they’re willing to shift whatever their social allegiances are, depending on who’s in office. We’re all beholden to them for sharing information, finding information, working, national security, all the things that we’ve built around these platforms. Yet I can’t think of one instance in American history where companies have not had some kind of federal regulation except tech companies.

So it shouldn’t surprise us that we’re living through an era now where companies that have no accountability can create platforms that now create chaos or that push people to violence. I have a hard time imagining we’d be exactly where we are without the moment that we live in, in history with these technologies.

Tim Villegas

That’s a great point. That is a great point. My friend Mickey Mellen, who runs a marketing web design firm here in Marietta where I live, he’s a good friend. We always talk and he said something about: we are the media, like we are the media now. It is so decentralized. He thinks it’s funny and I think it’s funny when people talk about not trusting the media or, you know, it’s like, well…

Will Parker

Yeah, that means everybody. That’s everybody. Even one of my buddies who does podcasts like we do said the same thing. He said, Will, you realize, Will, that we’re content—what he said, we’re media companies ourselves. Exactly. I never thought about that either, but we are. That’s why, if we want to bring it full circle, when there’s really horrible situations happening, when there’s a lot of cultural chaos taking place, I think it’s only human to want to jump in and say something or speak your mind or share your heart or whatever, and that’s obviously available to anybody who’s got a phone or a computer or a piece of technology. But when it comes to my responsibility in response to all these situations, I just try to think about: what is my responsibility to the people whom I’m trying to speak to? In my case, I work with a lot of educators

Will Parker

I work with a lot of educators and education leaders, and I just have to keep putting myself back, picturing myself back in their schools, back with their kids, back in their communities, and ask myself, what would I say if I’m standing there now? What would I say talking through a screen, but what would I say if I’m standing there? Because that’s going to change the way I have a conversation. I may say the same things, but I’m going to try to say them in a way that is within the context of that community.

Tim Villegas

Yeah. Well, I guess, let me ask you this. If you imagine yourself, you’re talking to a principal, right? You’re talking to a school administrator who is struggling with these outside inputs and wanting to know how to support their educators.

Will Parker

Yeah.

Tim Villegas

How would you address them or how would you support them?

Will Parker

I’ll give you an example. I was working with a principal a few months ago—this was actually during last school year, because you and I were talking at the beginning of the school year—but they were working with a situation where new board elections had happened. One of the board members kind of ran on a campaign of disruption and when they got on the board, was keeping the promises of being disruptive and had actually shared something on social media that ended up becoming a post that got reshared, inciting some really dangerous rhetoric against minorities in that school.

This was a tough situation because now you’ve got to respond as someone who loves and protects your students while at the same time responding to the bigger picture of the politics that are happening within the community. I watched this leader who was willing to attend a board meeting and make a statement on behalf of the school in terms of: these are the things that are dangerous when these things are being talked about, this is how deeply we care about our kids. At the same time that he was willing to make a statement that he had been invited to make—this was all within the context of his superintendent and within the context of authority and not stepping out of boundaries—he also, and I’m not going to share names because I don’t have permission, just shared with me a few days later that he felt overwhelmed by the emotions of the situation, was having a hard time reengaging back with his daily responsibilities and just taking care of kids.

So we talked about that and we just talked about what can you control and what can you not, and he recognized he had already spoken to the things that he could say, because those other things were out of his control. But then when he looked back at what can I control, he realized, wow, actually I can still control what’s happening here in my engagement with kids. A few days later we reconnected and he was just like, well, I just have to let you know that I decided for my own emotions to just park that other situation over here. I’ve said what I can say, I’m not paying attention to it anymore. I’ve stopped looking at the social media feeds and I’ve spent as much time as I could in classrooms with teachers, talking to students. I have rediscovered my joy because now I’m back where it matters.

It was such a real situation because he wasn’t ignoring the realities, he wasn’t burying his head in the sand, but he also wasn’t allowing himself to get trapped in that cycle. He was able to say the things he needed to say, but then put his attention back on: where am I going to make the most difference? Where I’m going to make the most difference is right here with the kids right in front of me.

One of the things that he does that I absolutely love is he, every year, invites students to a principal advisory committee. It’s a large school, almost 2,000 kids, but he has representatives from every class. He makes sure that those aren’t just your quote-unquote leadership kids; they’re kids that represent all the demographics of his school. He meets with them every single month for their input: tell me how you’re feeling, tell me what your experiences have been, tell me what you want your teachers to know.

I know this will resonate with you, Tim, because we’ve worked together now for a couple of years. I remember one conversation that he had with a student who was conveying, as a girl who was also a minority in one of her classes, the way they were talking about race was making her feel uncomfortable. The language that the teacher was using wasn’t probably intentionally insensitive, but it was not necessarily cognizant of how it would sound to somebody on the other side. He took that information and shared that with the teacher, and that teacher began to rephrase his own language around that topic. It made a big difference, and that student commented to the teacher and to the principal how much of a difference that made.

It’s just one little thing, but it’s just an example of what I would say to leaders, which is: where are you going to make the most difference? I always call it three buckets. You’re going to make the most difference spending time with the teachers who are directly instructing your kids, with your students who are the product of your school, and then with your community. You need to be hearing from your parents and your community members about how your school is influencing the outcomes that are happening right there in your neighborhood. So, those are some of my thoughts.

Tim Villegas

I’ve been thinking a lot about community lately. It seems a little trite and cliché—community, everyone, you know, we should. But this term, this idea of belonging comes up a lot in our work. So I’ve been thinking a lot about, well, how do I or how do I experience belonging? I’ve certainly experienced belonging as a churchgoer, in particular places and communities like that, faith communities. I have felt belonging at my workplace, especially in a school because you are just kind of in it together, right? You experience belonging in your classroom, certainly in your family.

I’ve been thinking a lot about my neighbors, and we have a fantasy football league—this is the third year that we’ve done it. We just had our draft a couple weeks ago. Will, it was so fun. Do you play fantasy football?

Will Parker

I don’t.

Tim Villegas

Okay. Do you know what it is?

Will Parker

I know what it is.

Tim Villegas

All right. So hopefully I’m not—again, I’m not sure if we’re going to publish this, but just in case anyone is listening and is like, what’s fantasy football? You pick real players that are playing currently in the NFL and you draft them in order with all these different people. So Will would pick somebody and I would pick one, and then we’d craft our team. Depending on how those players play in real life, you score points, and then your fantasy football team plays against another team, and whoever gets the most points at the end of the week wins the week. It was so fun.

Will Parker

It’s fun. I mean, like the Oklahoma Thunder was the National Basketball Champions last year. You talk about unifying—there, I mean, it felt so good to find something that everybody I knew was excited about.

Tim Villegas

Yeah.

Will Parker

It is fun to be able to reconnect with your community in a way and go, oh yeah, we actually, there are things we like that we share in common, that we get excited about. That’s one of the reasons I’m such a big fan of—and I’m not really a sports guy. I mean, I love sports, but if I have my own free time, I’d rather be playing a musical instrument or reading a great book. But I’ll go to our football game tonight here at the high school. Not because I have any reason to be there, except I’m just a neighbor, right? My friends will have kids out there performing in the band or on the field, and I just want to see my neighbors and hang out and all be excited about something that we share in common.

You know what, when you have something that comes up, like this bond issue, politics, things that happen, and you see each other at football games like that, it’s really hard for me to imagine them as my enemy if we don’t have the same letter in front of our names when it comes to how we vote. Because I know their kids, and I’ve seen them be good parents. So, yeah, Tim, I think you’re onto something. I think the more we can engage, reengage with those things that remind us of what we have in common, it keeps us from perceiving things about each other that are probably—I think it’s Brené Brown that likes to say the term “assume best intentions.”

Tim Villegas

Mm-hmm.

Will Parker

I’ve just had to learn to use that as a norm for any conversation I’m trying to step into. Let me first just assume the best intentions of this person before I blow up this conversation because of something I think that someone is saying. So it’s not easy. It’s not easy. Right now, if we do publish this, there would be people who are listening to this that are either experiencing some grief because of what’s been going on currently, or maybe you’ve got students or community members that are experiencing grief, even if you’re not, and maybe you are too.

But that’s not the only time that’s going to happen. I was working with a leader just a few weeks ago who started off the year managing a murder that had happened in their community from a former student, and the victim was a current student. They were beginning their school year with this enormous grief of welcoming kids back but also trying to walk through this crisis. Not just kids, but the teachers too. What this leader was saying in our conversation was, what do I do with my grief? I’m the one comforting everybody. I’m the one they come to. I haven’t quite figured out what I’m supposed to do with this.

That’s not the first time I’ve ever had that conversation with a leader who’s managing other people’s grief while trying to manage their own too. That’s where I just think, Tim, we’ve got to show grace. Let me get really practical for people that are trying to manage constant grief or chaos. We also had a school shooting this past week too.

So I’ll just say this to leaders: anytime you’re managing chaos—even in a, and I have never had to manage that kind of chaos, and I’m grateful. I’ve dealt with all kinds of dangerous situations and violence, weapons and all those kind of things, but I’ve never had to go through that. There’s a network of leaders with the National Association of Secondary Principals that regularly meet who are principals who have survived school shootings, which is so sad that that network has been created. But I’m glad it’s there because principals can turn to each other for support. I will just say this from conversations I’ve heard them having, but also I have with leaders who go through crisis, which is: one, recognize those stages of grief that people go through and give people space to hurt. Give people access to professionals who can talk to them through that hurt. Give them permission to express sometimes creatively their sympathies, whether that’s wearing something or maybe they want to plant a tree, whatever that is. But then also be committed to returning to a routine as quickly as you can too, because kids thrive on routine. Communities thrive on routine.

I had to learn this. We had a couple of student deaths one year and we were doing a lot of grief management and then one day the light bulb went off: there’s a lot of kids that are still competing, performing, showcasing talent, achieving stuff academically, and I have forgotten to pay attention to that. They deserve that attention. So I also had to switch my focus back to recognize that celebration is not an ignoring of the grief, it’s an important part of doing school. Just as it is important to wrap your arms around people through grief, it’s also just as important to shine the light back on the amazing things that our kids are doing this week, and we’re going to celebrate the heck out of them because this is the only time that child may take that field or may be in that science fair or may blow that horn at the competition or whatever that is. We don’t want to ever take away from their opportunity to experience that joy and celebrate that joy with them.

I know it’s a tall order. It’s almost like you have to be superhuman to figure out how to manage all of these emotions while at the same time keeping your head on. But I know I’m preaching to the choir. If leadership was easy, everybody would do it. We have to have people that are willing to rise up in the middle of the chaos and still lead, and still lead with that kind of centeredness and that student focus and that community belief. Because that’s what’s necessary. Leadership is never easy. You can create the best systems and have the best people. You can make it simpler over time, but it’ll never be easy because it involves people. That’s why leaders, we have to keep centered.

Tim Villegas

That’s such a truthful statement because people are complicated. They’re wonderful and beautiful and messy and complicated. There’s just so much there.

Will Parker

I like to call that, especially when you’re dealing with the messiness of people, I like to just ask myself, remind myself: this is the chapter that I’m in with this person. It may not be the end, but it’s the chapter I’m in and I may not like the chapter that I’m in right now, but there’s still a good chance that there could be a better chapter. What can I do that might make the next chapter better?

Tim Villegas

I like that. I like the English teacher.

Tim Villegas

Coming up, Will gets personal about how educators can rediscover their joy, why belonging matters more than ever, and how we can all make a difference right where we are. This was such an impromptu conversation that we never got to a mystery question, but just for fun, I’ll add one at the end of the episode, so stay tuned for that. Okay, here we go.

Here’s what I think is really useful to our audience: leaders have to deal with really hard situations in their schools, and they need a way to navigate through it. What I’m hearing you say, and what I’m getting out of this conversation, is to really focus locally and really look at who are the people in my sphere that I’m able to talk to, encourage, figure out what they need. That is where my attention should be. There’s always going to be the external stuff.

Will Parker

I’ll just sing the praises of my kid. One of my kids, Emily, is an assistant for my show. She’s got such a hard compassion, and she just grieves over so many of the things happening around the world, whether it’s wars or genocides—you could name the tragedy and she’s sure she pays attention to those things and cares deeply. But you know what she does every week? Since she can’t travel overseas and she can’t speak into the politics of the geopolitics of the world, she shows up every week and she serves food to homeless people because she can do that.

Tim Villegas

Mm-hmm.

Will Parker

She can feed somebody every single week and she can make a difference in our community. That’s what it’s all about, Tim.

Tim Villegas

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I really appreciate you, Will.

Will Parker

Dude, this is fun. It’s also stressful because you’re like, ah, I hope one of my sound bites doesn’t end up making me famous. I don’t want to get viral. No, I certainly would love the idea that somebody could be encouraged by what we’re talking about.

Tim Villegas

Yes. I think, you know, I am not as much of a media mogul as you are. I don’t think I’m a pundit. Some people are really good pundits—they take a situation and then they talk about the situation and have really smart things to say about it. I think that I am more of a big picture person. Like, okay, what do I really need to be doing here?

Will Parker

Well, and I think I see us as people that are—we are resources. To me, what I see you, of course we unite different audiences, but I think both our goal is to be a helpful resource for people. The conversations we have, the research we point to, the books that we recommend, the trainings that we recommend—that is for that goal of resourcing people to really help and change the lives of kids. So, you’re right, man. I don’t want to be a pundit because I’m not smart enough to have an opinion about everything.

Tim Villegas

Yeah, exactly. But I hope that whoever’s listening or watching can appreciate two people really struggling, but also encouraged that we’re just having this conversation and our heart is: we want to support people and we want to support people where they are, no matter where they are.

Will Parker

So I’m going to make a shameless plug since I’m talking.

Tim Villegas

Yeah, please.

Will Parker

My newest book is called “Whose Permission Are You Waiting For? An Educator’s Guide to Doing What You Love.”

Tim Villegas

Okay.

Will Parker

Even mentioning that title with my shameless plug is because you’re just saying the heart of what is so important to me, which is: at the end of the day, when you recognize here are the needs in front of me, and where can I make the most difference—which is right where I live or right where I’m at or right where I’m planted or right where I’m working—you don’t need anybody’s permission to do that. I think sometimes people get frustrated, and I think that’s, again, I’m not trying to be a pundit of cause and effect, but I think one of the reasons people turn to political violence is because they feel voiceless.

Tim Villegas

Mm-hmm.

Will Parker

They think that whatever that extreme action—and it doesn’t have to be the kind of violence that we’ve seen, I’m talking even in the rhetoric—they turn because they feel like there’s nothing they can do about this, so they’ve got to rage or vent or speak out or whatever it is. There are places for us to use our voices, especially to speak up for those who are being heard or oppressed or harmed, but where you’re going to make the most difference is when you see the needs of someone else and you can do something about it. You don’t need anybody’s permission to do that, just do it. I don’t need a national platform to help my neighbor.

In an educator’s case, every single day they can show up in whatever the guidelines they’re getting that week from the state or the federal government or from their board—could be confusing or weird or onerous or politically charged or whatever—but they can still make a difference. They can still just show up.

I like to remind leaders of—maybe this will be closing—I like to say two things to leaders when I’m ever trying to wrap up perspective. The first always sounds unkind, which is: you’re not as important as you think you are. Someday your school exists without you. People will forget who you were. You’ll be a black and white photo in some record and somebody will ask, “Who’s that?” So just remember, get over yourself a little bit. But then the second thing I like to remind people of is: you are so much more important than you think you are. Because right where you are, somebody today could be encouraged, inspired, motivated, changed. I am. You are. We were changed by the people who’ve spoken into our lives—by the teachers and educators and parents and pastors and family who believed in us and motivated us and encouraged us. You can be that too.

So I just think keeping those two truths in mind at the same time is super important. One keeps you humble and the other reminds you of what really matters.

Tim Villegas

Will Parker, thank you for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast.

Will Parker

Thanks for letting me.

Tim Villegas

There are always going to be external pressures, political noise, cultural tension, and the constant stream of information coming at us from every direction. Sometimes it really does feel like the world is upside down, but what this conversation with Will reminded me is that we still have agency, we still can make a difference with the people closest to us—our neighbors, our students, our colleagues, the people that we see every day.

I know we didn’t talk about inclusive practices in the practical sense in this episode, but part of thinking inclusively is being responsive to what’s happening in our community. It’s about showing up, listening, and leading with compassion, even when things feel chaotic. So if you are feeling overwhelmed, maybe the best thing you can do is what Will said: go and have a real conversation with someone, especially someone you might not agree with. That’s where the work of inclusion really begins.

Check out Will’s book, “Whose Permission Are You Waiting For? An Educator’s Guide to Doing What You Love.” I’ll put a link to Will’s website in the show notes and thanks to the book, Will.

Share this episode with someone who needed to hear this conversation. Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and follow Think Inclusive wherever you get your podcasts. Shout out to our listeners in Canal Winchester, Ohio. I have to be honest, when I saw that name in our analytics, I had to look up where it was. So we appreciate you taking the time and listening and sharing our episodes. Also, thanks to everyone who has been sending us messages about the show—the feedback about the season has been so, so positive. If you have something to share, you can always email me at tvillegas@mcie.org.

Okay, time for the credits.

Think Inclusive is brought to you by me, Tim Villegas. I write, edit, mix, master—I basically wear all the podcast hats and baseball caps. This show is a proud production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Scheduling and extra help from Jill Wagoner. Our original music is by Miles Kredich, with extra vibes from Melod.ie. A big thanks to our sponsor, IXL. Visit ixl.com/inclusive.

Okay, so I denied you a mystery question earlier, so here it goes. Is there a law that you’d be excited to break? Okay, confession time. There’s absolutely two laws that I would break, and I’m not even sorry. First, let’s talk about a real law in a real place: in the town of Kennesaw, Georgia, right next door to where I live, there’s a law that says every head of household must own a firearm. Yep, it’s been on the books since 1982. Now, I don’t live in Kennesaw, but even if I did, I wouldn’t own a gun—not because I don’t respect the law, but because I believe safety and peace come from community, not from being armed to the teeth. So yeah, I’d be a law breaker, a peaceful one. Maybe I’d get a citation for excessive compassion or failure to stockpile. I’ll take it.

Now, the second law I’d break is a little more domestic. You know the rule: no dessert before dinner. Well, I say, why not? Life is short. Eat the cookie. Sometimes joy comes in the form of a scoop of ice cream before the broccoli. And if that’s wrong, I don’t want to be right. So there you have it. Two laws I’d break—one about guns, one about cake. Both are choosing what feels right for me, and maybe that’s the bigger message. Sometimes inclusion means rewriting the rules, or at least questioning who they’re really serving.

What about you? Is there a law that you’d be excited to break? I’d love to know about it. Email me at tvillegas@mcie.org. I read every single message.

If you’ve made it this far, you’re officially part of the Think Inclusive Inclusion Crew. Want to help us keep moving the needle for inclusion? Head to mcie.org and click the donate button. Give five, ten, twenty dollars—it helps us keep partnering with schools and districts to move inclusive practices forward and support educators doing the work. Find us on the socials almost everywhere at Think Inclusive.

Thanks for hanging out and remember, inclusion always works.