What this is: This edition of The Weeklyish—our not‑quite‑weekly newsletter—features a written interview (not a Think Inclusive podcast episode).
Prefer to listen? This issue also has an audio version you can play (check the top of the blog post).
For this edition, I’m sharing an interview I did with DJ Nicholson from Inclusivology. DJ is a former public school teacher—like me—who left her school district over philosophical differences—also like me. We talk about the tipping points that pushed us to leave and what inclusive education really means in practice. I think you’ll love this one.
Shout out to Tillie Elvrum at the Parent Exchange for the intro.
Summary (what you’ll get from this read/listen)
- Why two longtime public school educators left district roles to work on inclusion at a bigger scale
- A shared framework for inclusion you can actually use: placement, membership, participation, learning
- How “data” can be misused to justify restrictive placements—and what to do instead
- The difference between doing inclusion and being inclusive
- Why presuming competence (and raising expectations for adults) changes everything
About the Guest
DJ Nicholson is the Director and Founder of Inclusivology, supporting parents and teachers to include every child in learning—regardless of disability, learning difference, or support needs. She spent 20 years as a public school teacher and six years as a coach/trainer before launching Inclusivology to serve on a larger scale.
About the Author
I’m Tim Villegas, Director of Communications at the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education (MCIE). I’m a former teacher and district support specialist who now focuses on external communications, storytelling, and helping districts build inclusive systems.
What we cover (at a glance)
- The breaking points that led us to leave district roles
- Why slogans like “All Means All” can ring hollow without real practice
- When “data” becomes a shield
- A concrete definition of inclusive education
- The shift from doing inclusion to being inclusive
- Getting started with UDL, shared definitions, and presuming competence
Key Takeaways
- Slogans aren’t systems. If you say “All means all,” your practices must align—especially for students with significant disabilities.
- Start with mindset. Beliefs about belonging drive decisions about placement and support.
- Use a shared framework. Inclusion = placement, membership, participation, learning.
- Placement is necessary but not sufficient. Being in the room ≠ being part of the learning community.
- Interrogate the data. Data needs context and can be incomplete or misused.
- Build adult capacity. UDL and differentiation are learnable, coachable skills.
- Presume competence. Raise expectations for educators and students—and design supports to match.
Edited Transcript (Q&A)
Tim Villegas:
I’m the Director of Communications at MCIE, a former teacher and district support specialist. Thanks to the pandemic, I now work for a Maryland nonprofit from Atlanta. I handle external communications, partnerships, the podcast, blog, social, and development—it’s a big, blended role.
DJ Nicholson:
I’m the Director and Founder of Inclusivology. I started it to support parents and teachers in including every child in learning—no matter the disability or need. I spent 20 years teaching and six years coaching/training. I left my district because my vision for truly inclusive education wasn’t lining up with what I was seeing.
The moment everything changed
Tim:
Was there a specific moment when you knew you had to leave?
DJ:
Yes. My expertise is with students with significant cognitive and intellectual disabilities. Our department planned coaching on foundational reading for students with disabilities. I assumed that meant all disabilities. Instead, the focus was only on students with specific learning disabilities and some autistic students who were already fully included. Students with intellectual disabilities were left out.
I pushed back: “We support all students with disabilities.” Our district said it was fully inclusive—#AllMeansAll. In a team meeting, my supervisor told me to “stay in my lane” and stop worrying about “the 6%.” Whether that number was real or not, the message was clear: focus on the students who move test scores.
I said, “I am in my lane—my lane just isn’t going the same direction as the road we’re taking.” That was my breaking point. I took early retirement and launched Inclusivology.
Tim:
What hits me is that your district publicly said “all means all.” If that’s the message, your practices have to match.
DJ:
Exactly. It made a cute hashtag and looked great on backpacks and stickers. We didn’t follow through in practice.
When “data” becomes a shield
Tim:
For me, it was a lot of moments that added up. I regret the times I played a part in moving students to more restrictive settings. I believed in inclusion and advocated one‑on‑one sometimes, but there were meetings where we convinced families to choose more restriction. I don’t think I did enough.
DJ:
And it’s hard when the whole IEP team isn’t open to real, data‑informed discussion.
Tim:
Sometimes “data” was used to justify restriction. I was even coached to “always go back to the data” because it isn’t emotional. But data can be skewed. It never tells the whole story.
DJ:
I’ve seen “data” created ten minutes before a meeting. When gen ed teachers lack support and special ed teachers aren’t positioned as school‑level experts, the default becomes separate environments.
The mindset problem
Tim:
So much of this is mindset. If you believe certain learners belong in certain places, you’ll interpret all data through that lens.
DJ:
Right. We need open conversations about mindset—growth mindset and inclusive mindset. Schools exist to serve all learners. We don’t get to pick and choose who belongs. Every child can learn; our job is to figure out how. That means naming bias, looking for solutions, and resisting the “it’s easier in the special class” argument. We shouldn’t still be having that conversation—and yet we are.
What inclusive education really means
Tim:
How do you define inclusive education?
DJ:
Being inclusive means giving every child the resources and tools to engage in learning—authentically. I’d love fewer labels. We say, “He has a disability, so he belongs in that room,” or “She has an intellectual disability, so she goes to ACCESS.” Then we layer on “high” and “low” performing labels. I wrote about the difference between doing inclusion and being inclusive—they’re not the same. “Doing inclusion” can sound like a schedule: “Students get services in the classroom.” “Being inclusive” is designing learning so each student belongs, participates, and learns.
Tim:
People often asked me, “What does it look like? How do you do it?” I started blogging because I needed concrete examples. Labels trip us up. What if we were all just educators, and learners were just learners? I might have expertise in differentiation, and I can support any teacher to support any student.
The four essentials: placement, membership, participation, learning
DJ:
For teachers who want to start but don’t know how—or how to talk with administrators—what’s step one?
Tim:
Get a shared definition. At MCIE, we look for four elements:
- Placement — Students are physically in the general education classroom (80%+ of the day).
- Membership — Belonging and being part of the class community. Are they missed when absent? Do they have friends and roles?
- Participation — What the student does in class. Are they engaged in the same activities and routines?
- Learning — Expectation to learn the same content, with appropriate entry points and supports.
(We use membership, participation, and learning with permission from Cheryl Jorgensen and Michael McSheehan’s Beyond Access model.)
Placement matters, but schools can’t claim to be inclusive while running disability‑specific programs that remove students from their neighborhood schools and group multiple grade levels together. I taught K‑5 in a self‑contained class—teaching six grade levels is impossible, and expectations drop.
DJ:
I agree. For me, membership, participation, and learning are the heart. I’ve seen students “included” 80%+ of the day but seated in the back working on counting hats while the class studies the Civil War. Same room, different education. That’s not inclusion.
Tim:
And educators who haven’t been trained in Universal Design for Learning can feel stuck. Adapting lessons for all learners is a teachable skill—but we have to expect it and support it.
DJ:
When we raise expectations for teachers, expectations for students rise, too. That’s presuming competence—assuming every student can learn when we provide the right tools and supports.
Resources Mentioned
- Inclusivology (DJ Nicholson)
- Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education (MCIE)
- Beyond Access Model — Cheryl Jorgensen & Michael McSheehan
- Parent Exchange (shout out to Tillie Elvrum)