How MCIE Partners with Schools to Build Inclusive Education Systems ~ 1034

Tim Villegas
From MCIE. 34 episodes, two feed drops, and three bonus episodes. Time to close the book on season 10.
My name is Tim Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education, and you’re listening to Think Inclusive, a show where with every conversation we try to build bridges between families, educators, and disability justice advocates to create a shared understanding of inclusive education and what inclusion looks like in the real world. You can learn more about who we are and what we do at mcie.org.

We did it—nearly 40 episodes in your feed this season, and we couldn’t have done it without you. We are going to officially close the book on a fantastic season with two of my favorite people: Dr. Carolyn Teigland and Dr. Carol Quirk.

Carolyn is the CEO of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education (MCIE). She previously served as the Associate Superintendent for Cecil County Public Schools and has extensive experience in promoting and sustaining inclusive education. Carol is one of the founders and former CEO of MCIE, having transitioned to Director of Special Projects in 2023. She has worked closely with school districts in Maryland and other states to promote systems change and school transformation.

In this episode of Think Inclusive, we’ll discuss MCIE’s history and its partnership with school districts since 1990. We highlight the importance of leadership in sustaining inclusive education and share success stories of students who have thrived in inclusive classrooms. We also discuss the challenges and trends in the educational landscape, including the focus on equity and the need for Universal Design for Learning. We wrap up the episode and our season with a discussion on how families and educators can advocate for inclusive education and the future plans of MCIE.

And now, my interview with Dr. Carolyn Teigland and Dr. Carol Quirk.

Tim Villegas
Carolyn Teigland and Carol Quirk, welcome to Think Inclusive!

Carolyn Teigland
Hi, Tim.

Tim Villegas
This is a treat because I get to talk with a lot of different people, and not everyone knows that I get to talk with Carolyn and Carol quite a bit—you just never hear it. This is a chance for us to pull back the curtain a little bit and talk about what we’ve been doing this year, which is a lot.

Before we get into what we’ve done, I wanted to set this up. Carol, you’ve been with this organization, MCIE, for a long time. How long has MCIE been partnering with school districts?

Carol Quirk
We’ve been partnering with school districts since 1990, when we had some funds to pilot what we have since developed into our systems change process and school transformation approach. Back in 1990 to 1992, we piloted having students who were considered to have—I’m putting in quotes—“severe disabilities,” who now we might consider to have significant intellectual disability, to be included in general education classrooms in their neighborhood school, which was something that no district in Maryland was offering at the time.

Tim Villegas
Yeah, and that turned into more work with districts across Maryland, correct?

Carol Quirk
Yes. Based on that pilot, we worked with one elementary, one middle, and one high school in three different Maryland districts—a small, medium, and very large district. Based on that, we wrote a grant for the State Department of Education for a U.S. Department of Education-funded grant to promote systems change specifically for what they then called kids with severe disabilities.

For the next five and a half years, we expanded the process we had piloted and then further tweaked it based on our experiences across 10 additional districts in Maryland. We learned what worked, and we also took the process we had and tweaked it a little more—took some elements out, added some in, and realized we needed to put some things right back in because they were important.

Like our partnership model, which is that we partner at the leadership level and also at the school implementation level. Without that partnership, the work we create with the school district and the school won’t be sustainable, because we need to have people behind who have gone through everything with us all along the way.

Tim Villegas
Right. I want to connect the dots for everyone who’s listening because Carol, you are former CEO, and also with us is our current CEO, Carolyn Teigland. Carolyn, you were the Associate Superintendent for Cecil County Public Schools, which was one of our partners in the early 2000s. Is that right?

Carolyn Teigland
That’s correct, yes.

Tim Villegas
When we talk about districts sustaining this work, do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Carolyn Teigland
Sure. Happy to. We started on this journey in the district where I was the Executive Director for Elementary School Education. We were a district that was highly segregated—nearly 55% of our population was in segregated settings, with a lot of center programming.

MCIE came into our district and formed a partnership with us. Over many years—probably seven or eight—it took us to really decentralize those programs and return children to their neighborhood schools, into the general education setting. We found that children flourished when they were able to be educated in general education with their peers.

We were able to sustain that work over a long period of time. We started with MCIE in the early 2000s, and the work still continues in that district, where they are between 88% and 92% fully inclusive with children. It’s a midsize district, about 16,000 students.

The work there has been significant over many changes in terms of superintendents and Boards of Education. One of the things I will say about the work is leadership is key. Leadership is key to sustainability, and really focusing on making certain that the leaders in the district hold this as a core value and a priority is what helps sustain the work.

Tim Villegas
So we have a little bit of the history of MCIE, and now a former school district leader has come on board as our CEO. What about now—what districts outside of Maryland are we working with? Or, if you want, you can also talk about the districts we continue to work with in Maryland. Where are the districts that we’re working with right now?

Carol Quirk
I want to jump off what Carolyn was saying about Cecil County, because our work there really informed our next level of systems change. With each new partnership, we’re always learning and tweaking, but the major components have remained the same.

We’re working in Illinois, Virginia, and Oklahoma, and in several districts inside Maryland. Did I say Illinois? Yes. In Arkansas we’re doing professional learning. Our work is not always systemic change—sometimes it’s getting ready for change. In Arkansas, for example, we’re providing professional learning for teachers who will be including children for the first time in elementary grades.

What we learned in Cecil County from the early 2000s to around 2008 was the importance of general education. Back then we went in through the special education door because we were thinking we would support the district to include children with IEPs. They didn’t ask us to evaluate their reading curriculum or think about what general education was doing—that was “the other side of the house.”

As we wrapped up our work there, we realized we were highly successful at placing kids, and many had high-quality experiences with significant impact on their lives. But some students were included in classrooms where general educators didn’t know what to do, and special educators didn’t really know what to do in a general education classroom. That made me realize we can no longer approach this through special education alone. Inclusion happens in general education. Special educators are important service providers within general education.

As we work in other districts—and Carolyn has led most of that work this year—we have to think about the extent to which districts are ready and able to do the heavy lift of changing policies and practices, building the capacity of educators, who may be scared—scared that they will fail or that students won’t be successful.

Tim Villegas
Let’s think about what has happened this year. Is there a story that sticks out—any big “aha” moments as we think about the partners we’ve been working with?

Carolyn Teigland
There were lots of great moments. I have not had one bad day. This work is very important, and it feels like it’s making an impact. Regardless of where districts are starting, they’re having the conversation, which is really important because many districts, unfortunately, are not.

To any of our partners listening, I give you a lot of credit for taking the leap with us and being willing to have the hard conversations. The work is complex and can be challenging, but it is so worth it.

We’re in a district where we started the work this year. There was a young man with significant behavioral challenges. We were challenged with how to best support him and make him a participating learner in his class. There were many episodes of intense behaviors. Educators were very challenged and, as Carol said earlier, scared—not just scared of failing, but scared for themselves and the other children.

We needed a plan, and we needed it fast, because we couldn’t sustain what was happening in the classroom. He was headed toward a nonpublic placement given the intensity and frequency of his behaviors. Through intentional Individual Learner Planning with the district, professional learning with educators, and a true commitment by educators to build a relationship with this child, they put aside their fear and the natural tendency to personalize the behavior.

Since late January, he has had almost zero episodes. He is being very successfully included. In fact, he’s so successful that we don’t see him much anymore because the educators are focusing on other learners. This was a student truly at risk of having his life outcomes significantly impacted—if he had gone into a nonpublic, behavior-centered program, his life trajectory would likely have been fundamentally altered; most children do not return from those placements.

He was named Student of the Month in May by his teacher. I cannot overstate the complexity of this child. This was a significant story, not just about us—it’s about educators willing to set aside emotions and mindset, and genuinely invest in figuring out a plan of action. School leaders, school staff, and district leaders committed to figuring it out. That change in his experience was probably the most powerful anecdote of the year, although there have been many others.

Educators right now are very focused on behavior post-pandemic. There are a lot of behaviors happening, and sometimes we feel at a loss. We want to label the behavior and move it somewhere else because we’re challenged, especially when people are getting hurt. Having that success story around behavior is important to highlight.

Tim Villegas
That’s wonderful. For learners exhibiting challenging behaviors, having a process like Individual Learner Planning is powerful. It gives the team something to do—it’s not just “call the behavior specialist.” Does anyone want to share a little about our planning process?

Carol Quirk
We have a planning process at the district level for policy, professional learning, capacity building, and messaging, with representation from both general and special education and student support services.

We also have a schoolwide transformation process with specific activities, even to the point that in the first year we have agendas planned out for the first six months of meetings. We have a district-level planning meeting, a school-level leadership team that meets monthly, and then individual learner planning processes for kids who need more.

Not everyone who needs more gets the same “go package.” There are a variety of tools. Our staff learn how to select tools based on learner needs. Our partners get access to the resources we’ve developed; they often adapt them, which is exciting because they customize and sometimes improve them. Then we ask for the better copy back! Several are public, but we provide partner access to the full variety of resources.

Carolyn Teigland
Teachers really see the value. The feedback we consistently hear is, “Where has this process been my whole life?” People say they wish they had time to do it for every single learner. It’s not a short process, but educators leave sessions feeling the time was well spent.

Tim Villegas
I also like that it’s customizable—you don’t do everything for everyone. You can pull out what you need and plan accordingly.

Carol Quirk
Right. For example, there’s a student that Carolyn supported this past school year, and I supported the team the previous year. He was already included, and included pretty well, but he presented both academic and behavioral challenges. The team kept thinking, “If I pull him out and do one-on-one intensive teaching, he’ll learn to read faster.”

What they weren’t considering—because they were so focused on academic proficiency—was what he would miss by not being there. It wasn’t just missing part of a reading lesson; it risked a path to more and more time out.

We created a new way to plan just for him around what the team saw as challenges. We had three meetings, each building on the previous one. Then they said, “We get it. We know how to do this. We’ve got it. Thank you.” It was great.

Carolyn Teigland
That’s a great example of the mindset that segregation is somehow better—that something magical will happen in a segregated place. The reality for the child is they are not with their peers, not having the conversations, not participating in the activities. You can’t replicate what happens in general education in a segregated setting.

For this student, he ended up participating in basketball after school and having reciprocal friendships, which don’t happen in a segregated setting. I spoke with his special educator in the spring. She said, “I don’t feel valued in this process because my value is what I can do over here, because it’s special.”

We talked about how what’s special can be provided in general education—that’s where she needs to be to help the general educator generalize the special supports so the student can access the curriculum. She later told me at the TASH Conference that this was life-changing—that she will never be the educator she was, and will never want to exclude children again. And this was a child with really complex support needs.

Tim Villegas
I think it just takes a mindset change. A lot of times, it’s seeing it for yourself. You can talk about it all you want, but when educators have those “aha” moments, aren’t they typically because they’ve actually experienced a change in the classroom?

Carolyn Teigland
Always. That’s why I’m here. This was not a journey I planned to go down. My boss said, “We are returning children to their neighborhood schools, starting with elementary schools, and you’re in charge of that.” I said, “Okay, boss.”

That’s where my journey started—not with a passion for inclusion, but with my boss telling me, “We’re partnering with MCIE, you’re in charge, and I expect this to happen.” Being the good Type A educator I was, I did what I was told.

It was my lived experience of watching children’s lives fundamentally change—altering the course of their future—that’s why I’m here. People start to believe in it when they see the power of it in real-life situations.

Carol Quirk
People often identify mindset as a barrier. You can say, “The law says this, research tells us this,” and some will still say, “I don’t believe.” How do you change mindset? I’ve seen it change, but only after people witness success.

Carolyn, you took a group to your old district to see what it looks like when a district is on the journey of inclusion. There was an administrator whose eyes were opened. Is she a believer now? Maybe on the path. But that experience of success and seeing kids change—that turns people around.

Carolyn Teigland
When you figure it out for one learner you thought was an insurmountable challenge, you start to think, “We should be able to figure it out for everyone.” If the alternative fundamentally changes a child’s educational journey, as educators we should have a gut check when making those decisions.

We have a lot of power. Parents trust educators to do the right thing. It’s not that educators are trying to do the wrong thing—it’s mindset. It’s the way education has historically responded to children who present challenges.

Carol Quirk
What you said really struck me. In every district, people believe that whatever their district tells them to do is the right thing. If they’ve never been out of their district or state, they don’t know there are other ways of doing things.

In two districts I’ve been in recently, their regulations define programs. In Maryland, we don’t have that. IDEA doesn’t mention programs—it only mentions the IEP for a single child. It doesn’t say anything about “rooms.”

Tim Villegas
You’ve said before, “What’s in a room?”

Carolyn Teigland
Exactly. In my district, when we started moving children from segregated programs, I noticed all the IEPs in those programs were the same.

Carol Quirk
Right. Regulations often define programs: “This is the autism support class,” “This is the functional life skills class,” “This is the resource room.” But what’s in a room that makes it special? The law requires access to the general education curriculum and progress toward grade-level standards.

If you put a bunch of kids together who don’t talk, how will they learn to communicate?

Carolyn Teigland
I’ve never been in a segregated setting where I walked out and said, “Yes, magical things are happening here.” The mindset of what’s happening in those spaces and the reality are two completely different things.

Carol Quirk
We should presume competence of teachers and students, but it’s physically not possible to offer the breadth and depth of grade-level instruction in a segregated setting with multiple grade levels and abilities.

Tim Villegas
That was my story. I spent years in self-contained classrooms. At one point, I was teaching six grade levels—kindergarten through fifth—in one class. How am I supposed to cover that curriculum?

Carolyn Teigland
Even if you were Superman.

Tim Villegas
Even if I had the most well-behaved children—which I didn’t.

Carolyn Teigland
Educators aren’t trying to do the wrong thing. They go into education to impact kids’ lives. Nobody’s trying to cause harm.

Tim Villegas
Educators are amazing.

Carolyn Teigland
We all love educators.

Tim Villegas
What are some trends you see on the horizon across the educational landscape that leave you feeling hopeful?

Carolyn Teigland
The focus on equity right now. There’s a push to pay attention to marginalized groups. Unfortunately, that doesn’t always include children with disabilities. I’m hopeful that as we have these conversations about historically marginalized children, we bring children with disabilities into the fold.

There’s a bigger focus than I’ve ever seen in my career on being intentional about addressing inequities. That gives us an opportunity to talk about children with disabilities.

Carol Quirk
Everything you said is true—but not everywhere. We’re lucky to work with states and districts that truly want to improve equity among marginalized groups. But there are states where they’re not allowed to use the word “equity.” They’ve removed it from all education literature.

So yes, I agree with you, but I’m also worried. In some places, they can talk about placing students with disabilities with peers, but they can’t openly address equity. That’s a concern.

Carolyn Teigland
I agree. It’s almost two ends of the spectrum—either folks are talking about it or working hard not to. The hopeful part of me thinks that because there’s tension, maybe that tension will help. But in some places, it’s having the opposite effect.

Another layer: educators are very challenged right now. We’re seeing teachers leave the profession and fewer entering it. In almost every district we’re in—except one—they’re certifying people provisionally to be special educators. Basically, if you have a bachelor’s degree, you can get provisional certification and start providing services the next day. That’s very concerning.

Carol Quirk
One thing I’m hopeful about is seeing really good general education instruction in some districts. We still have schools where the teacher stands in front, asks a question, and only calls on kids who raise their hands. That’s inequitable.

But I’m seeing more engaged classrooms—flexible groups, station teaching, kids taking ownership of their learning—even in elementary school. Teachers are reinforcing rituals and routines for engagement, communication, and transitions. The flow in a classroom can happen with a simple signal, and the whole class transitions smoothly. Kids are managing their own learning. That’s exciting.

Carolyn Teigland
We have one or two schools in urban centers where the work they’re accomplishing is something people should see. These are high-poverty, ethnically diverse communities. It’s about intentional leadership and high-quality Tier 1 instruction—exactly what you’re describing.

When you can accomplish this in the most challenging settings, it becomes a beacon for everyone else.

Tim Villegas
Do you see an emphasis on Universal Design for Learning (UDL) in the districts we’re working with—or just in general? The reason I ask is because we’ve had Katie Novak and Mirko Chardin on the show, both of whom write and talk about UDL. I’m wondering about that connection.

Carol Quirk
I hear people talk about it. But UDL has a lot of jargon—it’s almost an academic effort to comprehend what it really means in practice.

We can all agree that designing lessons for universal access is important—thinking about students who may be blind, deaf, autistic, or coming from trauma. We can think about the physical environment—can a child in a wheelchair navigate everywhere?

If we design for universal access, we create a foundation for anyone who walks in the door. But making that happen in instructional planning is complex. I don’t know of any district that has done comprehensive professional development and follow-up support for implementation to the point where you could showcase it schoolwide.

What do you think, Carolyn?

Carolyn Teigland
School districts are very challenged to provide high-quality Tier 1 instruction at its basic level, let alone UDL. There aren’t enough resources for the level of professional learning and job-embedded coaching needed for teachers to truly implement UDL.

You might have demonstration classrooms in almost any district, but to train all teachers across a district? That’s a huge challenge. Differentiation is more common—districts do a decent job with that—but UDL requires a much more complex set of professional learning and coaching. Most districts don’t have the funding for that.

You might get UDL in pockets, but to have it happening across all educators? That’s a challenge.

Carol Quirk
It’s a 10- to 15-year commitment.

You mentioned MTSS—Multi-Tiered System of Supports. In a district we were in yesterday, when we first started working with them six years ago, we introduced MTSS as a foundation for being fully inclusive. With a solid MTSS in place, you create school structures that think about all learners.

As students need more, teams plan collaboratively for increasing the intensity of interventions and embedding specially designed instruction within core instruction. This district started with a book study in year one. Six years later, they’ve created their own MTSS committee and are ready to roll out. It takes time.

Tim Villegas
It takes time.

Carolyn Teigland
And turnover makes it harder. Every year you have new educators and leaders. That’s the cycle of professional learning. It’s particularly challenging now because workload issues are a major concern for teachers.

Tim Villegas
For educators who are listening—maybe they’re in a district that isn’t as inclusive as they want it to be—and for families as well, who want more inclusion but aren’t seeing it yet: they want to make an impact, but where do they start?

Carol Quirk
Families: when MCIE first started—our first couple years before our systems work—we did community organizing. We had people who worked with families to help them organize within school districts, craft messages, create newsletters, and meet with board members and district leaders to promote what they wanted for their children in an organized way—letters to the newspaper, and so on.

I’ll never forget in our second year, one of our parent educators—the community organizers working with families—said, “I’m working with families in these three districts, and their districts are beginning to listen. But my child is still in a segregated school.” That was a wake-up call. We were putting in all this work to support families, seeing some change—and I believe in community organizing—but it’s a very long road, and it may not impact the people doing the work.

Families of children with disabilities may also have other service needs and medical needs. It’s hard to place the burden of changing a system on families. We want families to advocate for their child, but they shouldn’t have to be responsible for systemic change. Speaking before boards and other actions can help, but it’s a heavy lift.

What’s working in the districts Carolyn is partnering with now is that district leaders are saying, “We need change now.” That doesn’t mean every principal or teacher has already said yes, but leadership at the district level is influencing the system. Our approach is not a hammer—“do what we say because we’re right.” It’s a partnership: understanding where people are coming from and giving them information and tools to make change at a pace they can manage amid competing priorities.

Carolyn Teigland
I agree completely—leadership is key. Families can advocate and create a groundswell, but if leadership doesn’t understand, buy in, and have a mindset shift or a willingness to have the conversation, it’s very challenging to achieve real systemic change.

We’re also seeing, post-pandemic, more students presenting with greater needs. The solution cannot be segregated settings. There’s a tipping point where it becomes obvious to leadership that it’s not okay. Some of our increased presence in other states is because of this increase in student need, with or without disabilities. Segregating students won’t solve the issue. Having partners who can help with more complex support needs is the answer.

Tim Villegas
As we look to next school year, what are some hopes and dreams you have?

Carolyn Teigland
I’m excited about all the partnerships we’ve established this year and where they’re going. In every case—every case—there’s a plan for us to continue next year. That’s exciting because the work we started is going to continue in some form. Some partners are in readiness; some are ready for system and school transformation. In every system we were in this year, district leadership is committed to furthering the work.

Carol keeps saying we need to figure out a transition so I don’t have to travel so much as CEO—but I don’t know which district I’d give up! It’s very exciting to see what’s on the horizon in these partnerships.

Tim Villegas
If you’re listening and thinking, “I’d really love to work with MCIE—these seem like fantastic people,” how would they do that?

Carol Quirk
Contact us and let us know your interests and experiences. MCIE has always been interesting in that every year our work shifts based on funding and needs. As we’ve grown and become more known outside Maryland, there are probably folks in Maryland who have never heard of us while folks in a dozen other states are in regular contact.

It’s exciting to think about what’s happening. Tim, you’re in Georgia, we’re in Maryland; we’ve had staff in Virginia, and we have a staff member in North Carolina. As we expand geographically, we’ll also look at staff or contractual folks in other states who may be interested in doing the work with us, alongside us, in other locations.

Carolyn Teigland
As a former district leader: if you want to see academic outcomes improve for your learners, this is the way to do it. It’s hard work, but it makes an immediate impact—gradually increasing graduation rates, decreasing dropout rates, and improving the assessment markers that matter for accountability.

This is the work that will move those accountability measures—and more importantly, it means kids are achieving more. District leaders care about those markers because they’re tied to report cards. That’s a compelling reason to do the work.

Tim Villegas
Inclusive education benefits everyone. Carolyn Teigland and Carol Quirk, thank you so much for spending time with me on Think Inclusive.

Carolyn Teigland
It’s a pleasure, Tim.

Carol Quirk
Yes, Tim—always a pleasure.

Tim Villegas
Think Inclusive is written, edited, and sound-designed by Tim Villegas. It’s a production of MCIE. Original music by Miles Kredich.

Attention school leaders: Did you know you can team up with the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education and promote inclusive practices in your school or district regardless of your location? MCIE has partners in Maryland, Illinois, Virginia, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and more. Our goal is to expand partnerships in every state in the U.S. and beyond.

The first step is to start a conversation with us—visit our contact page at mcie.org/contact and let us know you want to transform your educational services to be inclusive of all learners. Please mention Think Inclusive in your message to let us know how you found out about MCIE. We can’t wait to hear from you.

A special thanks to our patrons: Kathleen T., Gabby M., Melissa H., Mark C., Kathy B. Joiner II, Jarrett T., Aaron P., and Carol Q. for their support of Think Inclusive.

Thanks for your time and attention. And remember—inclusion always works.