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Show Notes
About the Guest(s):
Val Brown is a Black mom from North Carolina. She believes that education is a vehicle for social change, and encourages parents, caregivers, and educators to engage in public discourse about critical topics because it allows them to learn with and from others.
Andrew Lefkowits is a White dad from Denver, and the father of an 8th grader and 5th grader. He believes that #ThurgoodWasRight – unless our kids learn together, there is little hope we will learn to live together and understand each other.
Together they host the Integrated Schools Podcast.
Episode Summary:
In this engaging episode of Think Inclusive, host Tim Villegas sits down with Val Brown and Andrew Lefkowits, co-hosts of the Integrated Schools Podcast, to discuss the pressing themes of integration and inclusion in education. The conversation traces back to the origins of the Integrated Schools organization, driven by the transformative decisions of its founder, Courtney Mykytyn. This episode provides a profound discussion on the role of parents and caregivers in the educational landscape, highlighting how meaningful integration goes beyond desegregation to create genuinely inclusive environments.
Focusing on the barriers to achieving inclusive schools, the episode delves into how systemic structures, societal pressures, and entrenched beliefs shape our educational institutions. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, Val and Andrew explore how privilege, race, and disability intersect within the educational system. Val strongly emphasizes the need for robust conversations about race and inclusion, while Andrew points out the vital role schools play in nurturing a sense of belonging and community among students.
Read the transcript (auto generated and edited with help from AI for readability)
Tim Villegas: Hi, I’m Tim Villegas. Welcome to Think Inclusive, MCIE’s podcast featuring conversations with people working on inclusion in the real world. Inclusion is more relevant than ever, and there’s a lot to keep up with. I want to start this episode by mentioning some sources I’m following for rapidly changing information. This list isn’t exhaustive, but includes Jen Newton from Teaching is Intellectual, Dom Kelly from The New Disabled South, Jenna Rufo from Empower Ed School Solutions, the Council for Exceptional Children, and the Council for Parent Attorneys and Advocates. If you have good sources of information, please share them with me at tvillegas@mcie.org. I’d love to know what channels you trust.
This week, we have a timely episode with my guests, Val Brown and Andrew Lefkowits from the Integrated Schools podcast. Here’s a quick summary of our conversation. We start by discussing the origins of Integrated Schools, which began with Courtney Mykytyn’s decision to enroll her kids in a predominantly nonwhite local school. This decision sparked the growth of Integrated Schools and led to the creation of the podcast to broaden the conversation about integration and inclusion. After Courtney’s tragic passing, Andrew and Val stepped up as co-hosts to continue her mission. We talk about inclusive education, societal and educational barriers, and how privilege and systemic structures impact our schools and communities. Val emphasizes the need for ongoing conversations about race and inclusion, while Andrew highlights creating welcoming spaces that embrace diversity.
Before we dive into my conversation with Val and Andrew, I want to tell you about our sponsor for this season, IXL. IXL is an all-in-one platform designed for K-12 education that helps boost student achievement, empowers teachers, and tracks progress seamlessly. It adapts to individual student needs, ensuring they are both supported and challenged. Interested in learning more? Visit ixl.com/inclusive.
After a short break, my conversation with Val Brown and Andrew Lefkowits. Catch you on the other side.
Tim Villegas: Val Brown and Andrew Lefkowits, welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast.
Val Brown: Thanks so much. It’s fun to talk to fellow podcasters.
Tim Villegas: It’s great to have you here. I want to talk about your podcast, the Integrated Schools podcast. How did it begin? How did you two meet, and why was it important to create a podcast?
Andrew Lefkowits: Integrated Schools started in 2015 with Courtney Mykytyn’s decision to enroll her kids in a local school that her white, privileged friends avoided. She found the experience fulfilling and started a blog to connect with others grappling with similar questions about parenting and citizenship. I found her in 2018, joined a virtual book club, and helped launch the podcast in November 2018. Tragically, Courtney passed away in December 2019. A team of us came together to keep her vision alive. Val found us on social media and reached out to collaborate.
Val Brown: I reached out in the fall of 2019, organizing teachers through #ClearTheAir, discussing race, history, and education. After Courtney’s passing, I stayed involved with Integrated Schools. When Andrew asked me to co-host the podcast, I was excited to join and bring my perspective as a Black mom from North Carolina.
Tim Villegas: It sounds like a natural collaboration. Having a co-host must be beneficial for discussing different perspectives.
Val Brown: Absolutely. We have conversations about our own lives and how we show up in the work. Having a partner to be authentic with deepens our relationship and serves as a model for our listeners.
Tim Villegas: Your podcast focuses on parents and caregivers. What message do you want to share with educators about inclusive schools?
Val Brown: As an educator, I believe we need more conversations about disability and inclusion. These conversations should start early, just like discussions about race. Our world and schools are designed for able-bodied, neurotypical people, and we need to change that. We must recognize the value of all human experiences and integrate all types of people.
Andrew Lefkowits: From a parent perspective, the pressure around parenting and the messages about school quality often focus on test scores and activities, not on shared humanity and learning from diverse people. We need to create spaces where everyone is welcomed equally.
Tim Villegas: There’s often pushback against inclusive practices, with concerns about diluting the curriculum. How do you address these concerns?
Andrew Lefkowits: We need to distinguish between desegregation and true integration. Simply putting kids together isn’t enough. We must create welcoming spaces that do the real work of inclusion. This requires training and examples of successful integration.
Val Brown: Schools should be places where we learn to be better together. Perfectionism can be a barrier; we need to accept that mistakes will happen and keep trying.
Tim Villegas: Let’s talk about immigration. Recently, there’s been negative rhetoric about Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio. How does this relate to inclusion in schools?
Val Brown: The rhetoric is harmful and short-sighted. We need to teach U.S. and world history and find ways to communicate across differences. Educators should welcome all students and create inclusive environments.
Andrew Lefkowits: Schools have the potential to show the next generation that we are all better off when everyone has a spot at the table. We must embrace change and create systems that benefit everyone.
Val Brown: Imagine signs all over the city saying, “We’re so glad you’re here.” That energy should be in our schools too. We need to make everyone feel welcome and valued.
Tim Villegas: Why is this work important to each of you?
Andrew Lefkowits: My experience as one of a few white kids in my elementary school shaped me. Nicole Hannah-Jones’ work made me realize the tension between my social justice values and the messages about being a good parent. This led me to Integrated Schools.
Val Brown: My son’s question about having a Brown teacher and the events surrounding Trayvon Martin’s death made me feel convicted to do something. Our family history and decisions have led us to be action-oriented and socially just.
Tim Villegas: Do what you can with what you have. Your strengths can move this work forward. Where can people find Integrated Schools?
Andrew Lefkowits: Visit IntegratedSchools.org. Our podcast is available everywhere you get your podcasts. We love hearing from listeners and growing our community.
Tim Villegas: Are you up for a mystery question?
Val Brown: Sure!
Tim Villegas: What is the most important thing to carry with you all the time?
Andrew Lefkowits: I wish it wasn’t so, but my phone is the only thing that makes me panic if I don’t have it.
Tim Villegas: Practically speaking, my phone, keys, and wallet are essential. But there’s more to it.
Val Brown: I want my answer to be a good attitude and open eyes. Can I walk through the world without feeling beholden to a thing and see more of the world?
Andrew Lefkowits: The most important thing to carry is joy, wonder, and belief that the world can be a good place.
Tim Villegas: I didn’t carry anything as a kid, just myself. Seeing the world with new eyes is important.
Val Brown: Yes, seeing the world with new eyes is key.
Tim Villegas: Val Brown and Andrew Lefkowits, thank you for joining me on the Think Inclusive Podcast.
Val Brown: Thank you. This has been great.
Tim Villegas: Great conversation.
Tim Villegas: Welcome back, folks. Normally, I provide three reflections and two calls to action, but I’m pausing this segment to focus on producing more episodes. If you find the reflections useful, let me know. That’s it for this episode of Think Inclusive. Time for the credits. Think Inclusive is written, edited, designed, mixed, and mastered by me, Tim Villegas, and is a production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Original music by Miles Kredich, additional music from Melod.ie. Thank you to our sponsor IXL. Learn more at ixl.com/inclusive. We appreciate each and every one of you that listens. Let us know how you are using these episodes. You can reach me at tvillegas@mcie.org. If you love Think Inclusive and the work MCIE is doing, please consider donating at mcie.org. Thanks for your time and attention, and remember, inclusion always works.
Key Takeaways:
- Integrated Schools Podcast began from Courtney Mykytyn’s decision to send her children to a local, predominantly nonwhite school, which led to broader discussions about educational inclusion.
- Authentic integration in educational settings requires more than just mixing diverse student bodies; it necessitates creating spaces where all forms of diversity are acknowledged and embraced.
- The societal and cultural pressures surrounding “good parenting” often conflict with broader social justice ideals, influencing parental choices in educational settings.
- Conversations about inclusion must extend beyond race to address disability and other social identities, encouraging educators and communities to engage in ongoing dialogue and action.
- Both guests highlight the importance of schools as environments where students learn to embrace diversity and foster inclusive communities, which can have a lasting impact on their perceptions and actions in society.
Resources:
Thank you to our sponsor, IXL.